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  #1  
Old 10-23-2017, 07:24 PM
ethan83 is online now
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Salvaging my Kidd barrel



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So, as I've posted elsewhere, I recently discovered that several years ago, a "gunsmith" that I had put together my Kidd build stupidly removed .002" from the barrel shank of my 18" bull barrel to make it easy to install into the receiver. At least now I know why I was getting about 20MOA of droop, despite the receiver also being a Kidd...

So, I've ordered a new barrel from Kidd (20", which I had been wishing I had gotten in the first place anyway for this build), and am now wondering what to do with this other 18" barrel. I'm leaning toward getting Nodak aperture sights and putting the barrel on an OEM Ruger receiver I have lying around.

The TL;DR:

* Will a Gunsmither V block alleviate any droop issues due to the undersized shank satisfactorily, or are there significant gains to be had by getting the barrel threaded to a receiver (both in terms of reliability as well as accuracy)?

* Does the Victor Titan rear hold-down for OEM Ruger receivers work as well as the Kidd hold-down? (I'm aware the Titan has its own special adapter for Kidd receivers)

* Has anyone had a black chrome moly Kidd barrel worked on, and if so, was your finish damaged? Kidd refuses to touch mine because they insist it's not possible to work on it without damaging the finish.


The full story:

I have an OEM Ruger 10/22 sitting in the safe that I don't shoot anymore, so I've been thinking about getting the Nodak aperture sights for OEM Ruger receivers, and using the 'damaged' 18" Kidd barrel with it.

I've been looking into sending the receiver and barrel to CPC to have them threaded - and I'm guessing that Randy/CPC may also be able to mill the rear of the receiver for the Kidd tang (Can anyone confirm if this is the case? I don't believe their website mentions anything about it). Which in theory should make the setup every bit as good as the original Kidd receiver/build the barrel came from.

The only drawbacks I see with that arrangement are A) cost, and B), Kidd has reiterated several times to me that it's not possible to work on their black chrome moly barrels without damaging the finish. I don't necessarily mind losing the .75" that CPC says is removed for the threading, but it's making me think I may need to have it cerakoted after machining to fix the finish. That's more cost, and I REALLY *love* the black bead blasted finish of the Kidd barrel.

So, the other option that I've considered is going with a Gunsmither V-block to compensate for droop induced by the undersized shank. It seems to me that keeping the bolt and breech face as square as possible should help reliability if not accuracy as well. For iron sights at ~50yd, I'm not concerned about accuracy in the thousandths, but will the Gunsmither block get me "close enough" to a square receiver/barrel to maintain reliability, as well as reasonable accuracy? Should I consider the additional accuracy of threaded receiver (beyond just squareness) negligible for this application? The nature of the front sight post being attached to the barrel should make a little droop irrelevant for sighting purposes, but I don't want to run into any issues with reliability, or with getting the barrel to fully float either.

Also, I'm thinking about putting this build into a Victor Titan stock. I already have one on order for my other Kidd receiver build along with the Titan Kidd rear hold down. Assuming I like it as much as everyone else does, I'll probably want to use a Titan for this new build as well, but it's not clear to me how the hold down works for non-Kidd receivers. As far as I can tell, it somehow clamps onto/into the space between trigger group housing and the receiver, and anchors it there? Is this design as stable as using the Titan hold-down for Kidd receivers? Is there any real advantage at all to the Kidd receiver tang design when used in a Titan stock?

Going with a Gunsmither V-block and using the Titan hold-down for OEM receivers would be significantly easier and cheaper than sending the receiver and barrel to CPC to have them threaded together, and machining the receiver for a Kidd tang. It would also preserve the length and finish of the Kidd barrel. Being an aperture sight build, I don't need the *absolute* utmost in accuracy, but I don't want to needlessly leave any on the table either. And I certainly don't want to worry about reliability issues with feeding/ignition/extraction if a shank undersized by .002" won't be satisfactorily compensated for by the Gunsmither V block. I don't mind spending a few hundred bucks to send the rig to CPC for machining, and then a cerakote job to fix the barrel finish if it's "worth it" - but it's probably not worth it if the OEM Ruger Titan hold-down and a Gunsmither V-block get me 98%+ of the way there.

The only other issue that stands out to me, is the potential for the dreaded canted Ruger receiver hole that people have noticed with their Titan stocks. I want to maintain a full free float, and even if the Gunsmither block eliminates enough droop to achieve this in a Titan stock, I don't want so much cant that I can't use a sling without pulling the stock into the barrel. But I guess ultimately, I can always just buy the Gunsmither V-block and Titan stock and see how it turns out. Worst-case, the Gunsmither block is what, a $15 part? If it doesn't turn out the way I want, I guess then it's time to send it off to CPC.

Just wondering if anybody has any thoughts they'd like to add. Am I on the right track with my thinking? Anything I've missed? My *** is still chapped from getting burned on the "gunsmith" butchering my nice expensive Kidd barrel, so I guess I'm a little paranoid about getting things "right" going forward.

Thanks!!!
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Old 10-23-2017, 07:52 PM
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IF.. IF anyone can salvage it that would be Randy at CPC... call him and describe you issue.. he is straight up as there is in da biz... I say that is your best bet. Now, the Gunsmither Block does wonders... depending on how sloppie that sucker is it may be that it angles the chamber too far downward and causes a bad chamber angle = seen that happen 1 time in over a dozen fixes with the GS block.. ya might give it a go before you send to Randy... I use GS Blocks on all my builds now that are NOT KIDD barreled.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:38 PM
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Before you put yourself in a "tizzy", try Loctite! I have a few barrels set with Loctite and they shoot like lazers!
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
Before you put yourself in a "tizzy", try Loctite! I have a few barrels set with Loctite and they shoot like lazers!


Get out the levels and a flat level table.

Red loctite and epoxy that thing in there.



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Old 10-24-2017, 01:15 AM
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Did you ask KIDD if they could do anything for it? Might be surprised.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
Before you put yourself in a "tizzy", try Loctite! I have a few barrels set with Loctite and they shoot like lazers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEASHOOTER67 View Post
Get out the levels and a flat level table.

Red loctite and epoxy that thing in there.



"The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand, we listen to reply"
I thought I had read elsewhere on the forum something about using the green Loctite? That it was used for cylindrical fitments? Some cursory searching makes it sound like Loctite 609 may be just the ticket. Only .002" was removed from the shank, so the fit with the Kidd receiver was still pretty darn close, just not the interference fit that it's intended to be. I don't know how it will fit with the Ruger receiver, but I'm guessing it'll be at least as tight as an OEM barrel. I don't want to make it completely permanent, but it sounds like there are Loctite products that will hold to temperatures well above the rifle would experience with normal use, but not so high that I wouldn't be able to remove it with an oven or heat gun.

Considering I don't need benchrest accuracy in the thousandths, it sounds like this is the solution I should really be looking into. Probably best to still use a Gunsmither block though? It appears Kidd barrel v-block cuts don't even need filing/modification to work with it.

Now I just need to figure out how best to keep the barrel square with the receiver when applying the Loctite... I'll start digging around the forum, but I'd appreciate any tips/tricks anyone would like to share here! I'm hoping I can get it lined up horizontally as well, to avoid any misalignment with the Titan stock's barrel channel. Hell, maybe the .002 taken off the barrel shank will actually aid this, if it turns out that my Ruger receiver's hole isn't particularly square.



Oh, and if anyone has any thoughts/tips/tricks on potential ways of protecting the finish of the Kidd barrel (black chrome moly bead blasted) when installing the Nodak front sight, I'm all ears too. It may not really be possible, but I'd like to preserve the finish as best I can, if it can be done.
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Old 10-24-2017, 08:11 AM
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Ethan83 sir

Please contact kid before you proceed. Youíd be surprised what help you may get.
That would be my first choice, then second would be loctite red.

We say red because itís easy to find and obtainable anywhere.
Loctite 609 May not be.

There is a loctite that is used for bearings and races ďI think there may be a different spelling of racesĒ and o forget what color or number it is. The stuff is used in aircraft i believe.


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Old 10-24-2017, 08:38 AM
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Knurl the barrel shank

I've had the barrel shank of two loosely fitted barrels on 10/22s knurled by my gunsmith for a tighter fit. One a new 10/22T and one a Green mountain barrel. Worked for me.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:56 PM
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I've had the barrel shank of two loosely fitted barrels on 10/22s knurled by my gunsmith for a tighter fit. One a new 10/22T and one a Green mountain barrel. Worked for me.


Video below shows using a hand knurling tool -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_rEcLvofig&t=3s
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Old 10-24-2017, 02:44 PM
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Thatís an idea. Not sure itís a good one but makes one think.........


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Old 10-24-2017, 03:00 PM
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I would try the gunsmither's v-block first and see if it helps. Depending on how loose of a fit it is it may or may not. If it doesn't help your only spending $15-$20 on a block that you can maybe use on another 10/22. If that fails then I'm sure Randy can take care of it for you. I don't see any reason you would have to cerakote the barrel afterwards as the only part of the barrel being touched is where it fits into the receiver that you can't see. He will also square up the hole in an OEM receiver if it needs it. I don't see him having any problems with it and his prices are pretty tough to beat. Good luck whatever you decide
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:06 PM
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http://americanroller.com/us/thermal...yAAEgIJMvD_BwE

Plasma spray welding. I worked for Buffalo Forge, way back when, and they used this to refurbish bearing surfaces on compressor shafts. These were huge and far cheaper than making a new shaft. Sprayed on and then machined.

It possibly could be done on a barrel shank.

Knurling would work too.
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan83 View Post
So, as I've posted elsewhere, I recently discovered that several years ago, a "gunsmith" that I had put together my Kidd build stupidly removed .002" from the barrel shank of my 18" bull barrel to make it easy to install into the receiver.
I use a heat gun to remove/install barrels.

REMOVING:
Aluminum expands more with heat than steel, so clamping the rear of the receiver in a vice and heating the receiver/barrel interface expands things enough that you can pull the barrel out with your bare hands.

INSTALLING:
Simply heat the receiver to expand it, then install the barrel. You'll have a few seconds to index it properly, then install the retainer.

Doing it this way keeps you from dragging away material every time it's forced on and off... and keeps it from getting loose over time.

As long as you don't get stupid, it will not hurt the finish on the receiver. Heat guns look like hair dryers. You can get them for $10-$20 at Harbor Freight. You don't need anything special. Mine is a 1500 Watt orange Harbor Freight 1500 cheapie.

Good Luck!
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