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  #1  
Old 01-11-2021, 10:54 AM
NickelPatina is online now

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Fair price ?



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This came up for sell locally. Thinking about making a offer but not sure on value.

https://www.armslist.com/posts/12965...dard-victor-22
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2021, 01:55 PM
coltlog

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I'm sure you question will generate many responses, but I'll give it a shot to get things rolling.

First, this is an East Hartford Victor and consequently won't garner much interest from collectors because of a consensus that this series of pistols are of lesser quality than those built in Hamden. On the positive side, this has an ML-prefixed serial number, and the overall production quality was actually pretty good, especially from a mechanical standpoint. Bottom line, if you're a shooter, and not a collector, this may be a gun to rightfully consider. However, at $800 you may want to look elsewhere.

Before you make an offer, check to make sure that there is not crack on the right side of the frame. There is a lot written on this subject in this forum, so take some time familiarizing yourself with this important consideration.

As for the mags, only the one with the larger floor plate is correct for the gun. The other is either missing the extended red floor plate, or it is the type intended for slant grip HS pistols.

The short barrel is really something of a wild card. I don't know if you have an interest in shooting a suppressed 22, but there may be some real interest in this one-off barrel should you choose to resell it.

Watch for responses from SGV, HSWayne and LDBennet for reliable info.

Last edited by coltlog; 01-11-2021 at 02:10 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2021, 03:30 PM
rimfiresrule2
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I won't forget a East Hartford Victor I passed on. It was in a pretty large, weekly paper of items for sale. I met the guy and I knew him, after meeting. The gun was awesome looking and I passed even though he said to just make any offer.
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  #4  
Old 01-11-2021, 04:51 PM
NickelPatina is online now

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Quote:
Originally Posted by coltlog View Post
I'm sure you question will generate many responses, but I'll give it a shot to get things rolling.

First, this is an East Hartford Victor and consequently won't garner much interest from collectors because of a consensus that this series of pistols are of lesser quality than those built in Hamden. On the positive side, this has an ML-prefixed serial number, and the overall production quality was actually pretty good, especially from a mechanical standpoint. Bottom line, if you're a shooter, and not a collector, this may be a gun to rightfully consider. However, at $800 you may want to look elsewhere.

Before you make an offer, check to make sure that there is not crack on the right side of the frame. There is a lot written on this subject in this forum, so take some time familiarizing yourself with this important consideration.

As for the mags, only the one with the larger floor plate is correct for the gun. The other is either missing the extended red floor plate, or it is the type intended for slant grip HS pistols.

The short barrel is really something of a wild card. I don't know if you have an interest in shooting a suppressed 22, but there may be some real interest in this one-off barrel should you choose to resell it.

Watch for responses from SGV, HSWayne and LDBennet for reliable info.
Thank you for this.
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2021, 06:29 PM
LDBennett
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The difference over time of this series of pistols was the less polished finishes. It degraded over the decades of production time, such that it was at the level of the East Hartford ML guns with the last of the Hamden guns. The collectors' view is that there is a big difference that does not exist.

The ML series pistols were made at both Hamden and East Hartford but the clear majority were made at East Hartford.They are indistinguishable in appearance and fit and finish. Because the collector think them less, Hamden guns are more "collectable" and consequently more expensive. Actually the East Hartford ML guns are the shooter's bargain.

As for $800 for this one, that is what I paid for the same exact gun 10 years ago. I had searched for a Victor at West Coast gun shows for the previous 10+ years and with no luck. I gladly paid $800 because at the time you just did not see many Hi Std pistol for sale in California. By the way, condition drives the pricing big time.

The suggestion to check for and avoid a cracked frame is a good one. If you get this gun then change out the recoil spring before shooting it and every 10 to 15 thousand rounds thereafter. Only shoot Standard Velocity ammo (CCI Standard Velocity is a good example) to minimize the risk of a frame crack.

If you need parts, Alan Aronstein of Interarms Texas is the man! These guns are notoriously finicky ammo feeders because of the tune of the magazine lips. They can become jamomatics if the lips are not just right. Alan can help you get them right or offer new magazines with hardened lips that are tuned for most guns. His mags are the best on the market place except for tuned originals.

If it is Hi Std for shooting that you want then this one seems like a good possibility, in my opinion. MY ML Victor is one of the best target pistol that I own and I have several target guns.

LDBennett
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2021, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDBennett View Post
The difference over time of this series of pistols was the less polished finishes. It degraded over the decades of production time, such that it was at the level of the East Hartford ML guns with the last of the Hamden guns. The collectors' view is that there is a big difference that does not exist.

The ML series pistols were made at both Hamden and East Hartford but the clear majority were made at East Hartford.They are indistinguishable in appearance and fit and finish. Because the collector think them less, Hamden guns are more "collectable" and consequently more expensive. Actually the East Hartford ML guns are the shooter's bargain.

As for $800 for this one, that is what I paid for the same exact gun 10 years ago. I had searched for a Victor at West Coast gun shows for the previous 10+ years and with no luck. I gladly paid $800 because at the time you just did not see many Hi Std pistol for sale in California. By the way, condition drives the pricing big time.

The suggestion to check for and avoid a cracked frame is a good one. If you get this gun then change out the recoil spring before shooting it and every 10 to 15 thousand rounds thereafter. Only shoot Standard Velocity ammo (CCI Standard Velocity is a good example) to minimize the risk of a frame crack.

If you need parts, Alan Aronstein of Interarms Texas is the man! These guns are notoriously finicky ammo feeders because of the tune of the magazine lips. They can become jamomatics if the lips are not just right. Alan can help you get them right or offer new magazines with hardened lips that are tuned for most guns. His mags are the best on the market place except for tuned originals.

If it is Hi Std for shooting that you want then this one seems like a good possibility, in my opinion. MY ML Victor is one of the best target pistol that I own and I have several target guns.

LDBennett
Thank you for sharing your knowledge on these. It is greatly appreciated.
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  #7  
Old 01-12-2021, 10:59 AM
HIghstandardguy
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I can't tell from the pictures if the magazines are actual HS magazines or aftermarket. Aftermarket magazines would definitely lower the value of the offering by at least $100 IMHO.
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Old 01-12-2021, 12:14 PM
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HSWayne
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Victor

This pistol would not be my first choice of a Victor due to the ejection port cutout of the rib just to the rear of the breech. This cutout was added in this timeframe because it was intended to allow empty cases to eject out of the gun more easily, if the ejector did not eject the case straight out the side of the opening when the slide recoils back. However, an unintended consequence of the cutout is it makes the rib act like a tuning fork when the gun is fired. The shooter can feel and hear the twang of the rib. To me it is annoying. If a person plans to remove the rib and mount a red dot sight, then it is not an issue.

The magazine with the extended foot is an original magazine, but the one with the flat base is an old version Triple K magazine that is worthless, IMO.

The extra barrel was made by Cobray in the 1980s as part of a kit. The kit had the barrel, a barrel cover that extended out to the end of the barrel, a fake suppressor about 5 inches in length, and a rudimentary front sight with screws for attachment to the barrel cover. The 7/16-14 threads will not fit most (if not all) currently made suppressors for .22 LR. The usefulness of this barrel on the Victor would be very limited, since there would be no sights.

Last edited by HSWayne; 01-14-2021 at 07:52 PM.
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  #9  
Old 01-13-2021, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSWayne View Post
This pistol would not be my first choice of a Victor due to the ejection port cutout of the rib just to the rear of the breech. This cutout was added in this timeframe because it was intended to allow empty cases to eject out of the gun more easily, if the ejector did not eject the case straight out the side of the opening when the slide recoils back. However, an unintended consequence of the cutout is it makes the rib act like a tuning fork when the gun is fired. The shooter can feel and hear the twang of the rib. To me it is annoying.
...
Is this due to the empty case hitting the bottom of the rib? Shouldn't/couldn't the ejector be tuned so that the empty case exits the port closer to 3:00, thereby avoiding impact with the rib entirely?
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:27 PM
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The Victor appears to be in good condition. If they have a lot of rounds through them they usually show some peening on the slide and breech face. Also on the slide on angled edge on the bottom right where the slide stop catches it. Of course if a lesser amount of high velocity ammo was used I think the frame could crack before other signs of use would show.
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  #11  
Old 01-13-2021, 08:05 PM
coltlog

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyVision View Post
Is this due to the empty case hitting the bottom of the rib? Shouldn't/couldn't the ejector be tuned so that the empty case exits the port closer to 3:00, thereby avoiding impact with the rib entirely?
I doubt that ejected casings on your Victor would hit the rib because it has the revised ejector that came out sometime around 1972-73. Referring to the attached diagram, your ejector is second from the left.

The ejector that is third from the left is the predecessor drop-nosed ejector. It struck the casing at about the 7 o'clock position and ejected at about a 1 o'clock angle. This was fine until the introduction of the ribbed Victors as it contributed to stove pipes in the early Victors.

The new ejector was designed to hit the casing at 9 o'clock and eject at 3 o'clock thus preventing the casing from striking rib overhanging the ejection port. The drop nose ejectors can be trimmed to duplicate the ejection angle of the new ejectors.

As a matter of interest, the last pictured ejector is an example of fashioning a replacement ejector out of a piece of 1/8" drill stock. There's more about that somewhere on this forum for those having an interest.
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File Type: jpg Ejector Diagram copy.jpg (62.7 KB, 114 views)
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Old 01-14-2021, 06:27 AM
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Let me add (and I am no expert here other than owning a few high-standards) but the ORIGINAL place of manufacture was, I believe, New Haven Connecticut. It then moved to Hamden and then E. Hartford. We see the older models such as the 101s, some duramatics and the like made in New Haven. I know someone on here can add and correct this, which I welcome.
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2021, 02:36 PM
HIghstandardguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HUSHKABOOM View Post
If they have a lot of rounds through them they usually show some peening on the slide and breech face.
In my experience, this happens primarily on the left side.
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Old 01-14-2021, 06:38 PM
LDBennett
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When Alan Aronstein ran Hi Std of Houston Texas he reported here that they repaired some government issue very heavily used target Connecticut Hi Std pistol whose slides were heavily mushroomed. The mushrooming apparently was VERY apparent.

Seems there was not much stress analysis done on those original Connecticut guns and the steels used don't seem to measure up to modern day steels.

The Houston guns in their last version were made of better modern steels. Too bad that it took them years to escape the bad press on the too big magazine wells in the early TX Hi Std versions. My late TX stainless steel version runs great but my original TX version (circa 1998) would not feed ammo at all. The magazine well was too big to hold the magazine upright correctly. Alan made it right with a new frame about 10 years later.

LDBennett
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2021, 10:52 PM
coltlog

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDBennett View Post
The Houston guns in their last version were made of better modern steels. Too bad that it took them years to escape the bad press on the too big magazine wells in the early TX Hi Std versions. My late TX stainless steel version runs great but my original TX version (circa 1998) would not feed ammo at all. The magazine well was too big to hold the magazine upright correctly. Alan made it right with a new frame about 10 years later.

LDBennett
While the Houston guns could boast better metallurgy, they were nonetheless still not immune to frame cracks.
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File Type: jpg HSFrameCrack copy.jpg (64.8 KB, 43 views)
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