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  #76  
Old 01-23-2020, 05:40 PM
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Well, it is just a .22LR, not meant for long range shooting. Seems to me that 25 yds is a good starting point, and an easy point for comparison. Then we can go to 50. Does anybody really need a .22LR that will hit tacks at 75 or 100 yards? There are very few .22LR loads that will even do that. Take it as a remedial comparison and go from there.
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  #77  
Old 01-23-2020, 05:55 PM
WillR
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Awwforchrisssake some of you guys have your “10-22 magazine wound too tight
“ - if you know what I mean. Shoot and post at any range you want. It’s all good. Please, just post the range. Those posts that don’t state the distance are a waste of time.
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  #78  
Old 01-23-2020, 05:57 PM
ky-shooter
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I am impressed by 25 yard groups. Maybe not the “gold standard” but they are incredibly telling about the accuracy potential of a rifle and/or ammo combo. They are valuable if for no other reason than that.

I assume anyone bothered by 25 yard rimfire rifle groups are also bothered by 100 yard centerfire rifle groups in favor of groups 300, 500, 600, or 1000 yards. The same analogy applies. While not perfect, 100 yard centerfire groups are awfully telling.
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  #79  
Old 01-23-2020, 06:10 PM
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I'm not impressed with 25 yard shots either but, 100 yard shots don't impress me either. I'm a game hunter, not a paper puncher. I am 62 years old and never, ever in my life of squirrel hunting have I had the need to take a shot at game more than 30-35 yards, coyote and deer not included. If I have a $200 gun and a $50 scope that will shoot less than 1/2" at 25 yards, I'll take that all day long. Just my 2 cents...
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  #80  
Old 01-23-2020, 06:14 PM
Rwortman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ky-shooter View Post
I am impressed by 25 yard groups. Maybe not the “gold standard” but they are incredibly telling about the accuracy potential of a rifle and/or ammo combo. They are valuable if for no other reason than that.

I assume anyone bothered by 25 yard rimfire rifle groups are also bothered by 100 yard centerfire rifle groups in favor of groups 300, 500, 600, or 1000 yards. The same analogy applies. While not perfect, 100 yard centerfire groups are awfully telling.
Ditto. Accuracy for the most part is an angle. Its pretty unlikely that a .22 rifle is going to make one hole groups at 25 yards and shotgun patterns at 50. The only deviation from this would be if something is curving the path of the bullet other than gravity. Maybe if the crown of the barrel was defective?. Wind doesnt count as nothing in the rifle is going to make the bullet more wind resistant unless the barrel is short enough or long enough to effect velocity. Lots of unsubstantiated anecdotes. Someone show me the data where two rifles were shot for accuracy at 25 and 50 and the one that was better at 25 was worse at 50.
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  #81  
Old 01-23-2020, 06:30 PM
*Doc Holliday
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25yds

As I have been told by and excellent .22lr benchrest shooter. 25yds is used to test
lots of ammo speed ect. when they find a lot that works well then they move out
to 50yds....just my nickles worth
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  #82  
Old 01-23-2020, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dryfly24 View Post

To me, a rifle/Ammo combo at 25 yards is not a true indicator of performance.
...
...
...
Maybe its just me. Anyone else feel that way?
I found your post pretty clear. It's akin to assessing the performance of a car by looking at a photo of the car in a magazine. Pretty much any benched rimfire rifle with any random ammo will perform very well at 25 yards. A benched 12-gauge cylinder bore with a dented barrel will group slugs well at 25 yards too. 25 yards is no test for a long gun or ammo.

But, people these days tend to be searching desperately for something to be offended by so they take everything out of context. I read two pages of folks being offended by their own imaginations and, remembering why I seldom participate in forums, skipped to the end.

I just felt I should let you know that someone understood what you were saying.

Back to anti-social mode for me.
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  #83  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia View Post
Most of us were born without knowing how to crawl, much less walk. Then, eventually, we worked our way up from just thrashing around to crawling then walking and even running...That's my opinion and you're welcome to it.
After many years of reading your posts your common sense is still strong and sharp.

Kitash
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  #84  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:01 PM
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Where I live, this time of year is cold, windy, snowy, and rainy. It's unlikely that we will get a magically clear, warm weekend. So I'm pretty much stuck shooting indoors, at a 25 yard range. I have to delay publishing an entire rifle build project, because I don't have 50 yard results to share. But that doesn't mean shooting at 25 is a waste of time. I can still see how different ammo affects POI. And even though most groups are a single hole, there are also some fliers. So I can study my technique for deficiencies (a little more valid than blaming the ammo). Also, shooting indoors is better than not shooting at all.
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  #85  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:16 PM
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If I ever learn to post photo's on here I'll have a lot of members gnashing their teeth, their knuckles white, cheeks red, blood pressure near the boiling point, not intentionally mind you, but see, I have a knack for it.

I seldom shoot at 25 yards, but after reading this thread if by chance I should, you can bet your lunch money I'll specify 25 Yards.

I shoot, a lot. Seldom does a day pass without my shooting some amount. I sell my scrap empties at a local salvage yard, a 5 gallon bucket of empty .22 brass will fetch about $30.00 @ 90 cents a pound, I sell two or three a year. I enjoy shooting, I especially enjoy shooting tiny bug hole groups so 90% of the brass will have a SK standard + Lapua headstamp.

I like to see youngsters shoot and have allowed them to shoot some very accurate rifles with their fathers permission from my bench on my range. I think it gives a boost of confidence to see them shoot a tiny group @ 50 yards. We need to keep them interested in shooting.

Personally, I don't care what distance the groups are fired at, if it pleases the shooter, it pleases me.

Ya'll have a good day, be gentle, it don't cost nothing.
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  #86  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:24 PM
dennis2146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dryfly24 View Post
This always bugs me. Someone will start a thread to post range results of a particular rifle and Ammo combo. Then reading into it further Ill find out it was done at 25 yards.

I get that some folks cant always shoot at distances of 50 or more. Im not talking about forced conditions, which is understandable and much better than nothing in that case. But what Im talking about is normal everyday testing where you do have a choice.

To me, a rifle/Ammo combo at 25 yards is not a true indicator of performance.

I once asked the great Joe Haller why he held Benchrest competitions at 25 yards at his club and he chuckled and said it was because he wanted to attract more people into the sport by making it easier for them to feel they were doing well. He said anyone with a bit of skill and a halfway decent rifle could shoot a good card at 25 and feel good about it. Because it was much harder at 50, the ones who werent as serious about it would quickly loose interest.

By the same token the guys who were serious and had the better equipment, would clean a card pretty handily. The scores at 50 were quite different.

I see a lot of folks posting 25 yard groups saying that they just double in size as distance does. Thats not how it works at all. Ive seen it time and again. There are a million factors that affect group size and Im sure most here are aware of them so I wont go into it all. But folks still persist in posting group after group at 25 when the standard for a 22LR is commonly accepted as 50 yards.

I just kind of chuckle when I see it, but it seems many really are impressed and think the rifle or shooter are the second coming. Maybe they are and maybe they arent but until you stretch it out to find out you really dont know.

Another one is cherry picking groups or discounting flyers. Time and gain theyll measure a tight cluster and youll see one or two outside which theyll circle and say that was me so I didn't count it.

Again, they're not doing themselves or the rifle/Ammo any favors. Maybe theyre not out to prove anything and just want to have fun and feel they're doing well. Maybe they are only doing it for bragging rights - thats fine too if thats what they're after. But truth is you arent really contributing to the knowledge base or furthering the sport by posting those groups under the guise of experimentation.

Not meant as a dig at anyone in particular. Just my own personal observation and a bit of a pet peeve since I am always interested in range report posts and what a particular rifle/Ammo can achieve. When I see its done at 25 I am usually disappointed and just move on.

Maybe its just me. Anyone else feel that way?
With due respect I can't imagine why it bothers you or more important might be that you let it bother you. Each of us has our way of feeling good about ourselves and out equipment. Perhaps you shoot very well and also have a number of rifles that point out your skill. Others may not have your skill nor your equipment. Maybe all they have is a Ruger 10-22 and they like shooting it at 25 yards. I suspect squirrels and rabbits are killed at 25 yards and closer. For these people 25 yard shooting is all then need and want. So what? You like shooting at longer ranges. I do too. But I do not begrudge anyone for whatever shooting they enjoy.

Dennis
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  #87  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:45 PM
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All I have is a 25 yard area in which to shoot without driving for extended periods of time, so I guarantee if I post any, some people will be "unimpressed".

I really enjoy seeing a good target , whether it was shot at 25 or 125. I'm not sure who posts targets to impress someone else. If someone is happy with their performance, I'm happy for 'em.

MOA is not distance related.
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  #88  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:57 PM
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Well at 68, if I can shoot a good group at 25 yards, yes, I'm impressed. If I were still 30 I might not be so impressed.
It's all perspective...
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  #89  
Old 01-23-2020, 08:50 PM
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I have been known to shoot at as little as 50 feet at an indoor range when it is pouring rain. Regardless of distance, trigger time counts. Keeping dry also counts. Off hand is not my best position, but it is shooting and thats the bottom line.

I cant think of any reason that anyone should care about my group sizes at any distance. I can shoot one hole groups at 100 yards with my F Class rifle. So can dozens of other shooters. So what? First and foremost, we are having a good time with friends doing what we like to do - shoot tiny holes.
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  #90  
Old 01-23-2020, 08:55 PM
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To the OP: As syfr stated: "MOA is not distance related." Now it may increase in difficulty to shoot the same MOA as distance is increased due to wind, visual clarity and many other factors. But a rifle that shoots 0.1 MOA at 25 Yards impresses me because I already know it is a shooter before I shoot it at 50 or 100. Granting the OP's point that it is easier to see the rifle/ammo potential at greater distances, there is no reason to not be impressed at a really great MOA group at any distance--even if it is at 25 Yards.

I shoot centerfire at 200 Yards because it is easier to see the differences than at 100. But I would never be so ungracious as to tell anyone that I'm not impressed by groups shot at shorter distances.

Once again Sophia's post shows us the exemplary attitude toward other shooters.
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