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  #31  
Old 05-17-2017, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye57 View Post
That's what I done , when checking to see how a carbine barrel would shoot in my .920 stock. The barrel was a terrible shooter, but I did get a consistent bed.
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=829106 . post #12.

You would think that could be done with epoxy, or rubber. Then put a layer of painters tape in, and make another pad of either material, over the tape. Then it could be moved anywhere you want, and still be the right thickness.
I've been reading your posts as well as 86c's on RTV/Permatex barrel bedding, and since it's not permanent, I'm going to give it a try. I've been looking at the options and doing some more research, and decided that since I'll likely try it a few different ways, varying the amounts of pressure, etc., to use something I can get in larger quantities than the preferred small tubes of Permatex RTV. I ended up getting a couple tubes of this stuff to experiment with:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Comparing the technical data sheets for Permatex Ultra Black RTV vs the Red Devil RTV, the "Shore A" hardness looks comparable (30 vs. 27 +/-3), so hopefully it will perform similarly.

Based on reading your threads, it looks like RTV takes quite a while to cure, so I'll probably shoot the gun as-is this weekend,maybe try a little o-ring tuning, and then go for the first round of RTV bedding early next week.
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  #32  
Old 05-18-2017, 08:24 AM
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While I like inner tube rubber for my pads (except when I glassbed them) I had considered using RTV on my Rem Mod 700 .243 in a hand laid fiberglass stock almost 40 years ago. I was going to do it full length. I never got around to trying it

When 86c first posted about doing this I thought I probably should have done it. I had even posted about the thought of doing it about 12 years ago here at RFC. It is an interesting idea.

While I never say never I doubt I will use it on any of my rifles it seems to work for others. I have 4 different thicknesses of inner tube rubber, I can cut them to any shape or stack them. For instance Skeeter27red who owns Rimfire Technologies cuts them into long triangles for his bedding kit and the rubber is supposed to be laid with the fat end towards the muzzle in front of the action.

Actually my two most accurate rifles at 100 yards have the glass bed pad where I describe it. My most accurate 50 yd rifle (African Rose the same one left sighted in for 200 for 2 years while we could plink saltine crackers at that distance) has an inner tube pad.

Obviously there is more than one way to skin a cat right?
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Last edited by Vincent; 05-19-2017 at 01:49 PM.
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  #33  
Old 05-18-2017, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent View Post

Obviously there is more than one way to skin a cat right?
Yup, I'm trying to leverage whatever info I can find, but after searching everywhere on RFC, I can only find a small handfull of posts about folks using this skinny 18" contoured barrel. I'd like to get bull barrel accuracy from this thing and hopefully end up with the magic formula (and maybe even help other's trying to do the same thing). I may need to think outside of the box, but after all of the searching, I'm not sure I even know what the box is
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  #34  
Old 05-18-2017, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhp View Post
I've been reading your posts as well as 86c's on RTV/Permatex barrel bedding, and since it's not permanent, I'm going to give it a try. I've been looking at the options and doing some more research, and decided that since I'll likely try it a few different ways, varying the amounts of pressure, etc., to use something I can get in larger quantities than the preferred small tubes of Permatex RTV. I ended up getting a couple tubes of this stuff to experiment with:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Comparing the technical data sheets for Permatex Ultra Black RTV vs the Red Devil RTV, the "Shore A" hardness looks comparable (30 vs. 27 +/-3), so hopefully it will perform similarly.

Based on reading your threads, it looks like RTV takes quite a while to cure, so I'll probably shoot the gun as-is this weekend,maybe try a little o-ring tuning, and then go for the first round of RTV bedding early next week.
If you decide to go that route, the Red Devil will probably be fine .
Just a few tips.
Put the tube in a container of hot water for 10 minutes before using, and it will come out a lot easier. If you use parchment paper on the barrel, Johnsons Paste works best as a release from the bedding. Wait until your ready to put it together, to put the wax on the paper. Don't buff it, and don't let it dry. I have done a few that the paper wouldn't release. They serve the purpose, but don't look good.
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  #35  
Old 05-18-2017, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye57 View Post
If you decide to go that route, the Red Devil will probably be fine .
Just a few tips.
Put the tube in a container of hot water for 10 minutes before using, and it will come out a lot easier. If you use parchment paper on the barrel, Johnsons Paste works best as a release from the bedding. Wait until your ready to put it together, to put the wax on the paper. Don't buff it, and don't let it dry. I have done a few that the paper wouldn't release. They serve the purpose, but don't look good.
Thanks for the tips! I read your post comparing the different release agents and added it as a favorite on my browser for future reference. Johnson's Paste is on my shopping list.
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  #36  
Old 05-19-2017, 08:33 PM
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Went to the range this morning and tried a couple more pressure pad combinations and testing O-rings on the barrel at 50 yards. Some combinations showed promise, but after several targets, I decided that until I get a more consistent (and effective) technique, none of the testing would be conclusive. I replaced the front aluminum tape pad with the thinnest piece of rubber tire patch I had. It caused the POI to go up about an inch.

I used the technique that seemed to work best, where I physically pulled down the fore end with my left hand, really muscling it into the front bag, plus applying firm downward pressure with my right thumb at the rear, and firm shoulder pressure. I shot this target with Eley Club (top row), CCI SV (second row), and GECO Semi-Auto (third row, plus last bull). I was actually tired at the end from applying so much pressure.

The third bull using GECO felt perfect, in that the scope barely moved off target from shot to shot, and immediately returned to target after the recoil. Obviously I need to figure out exactly what I did setting up for the group, but it definitely didn't happen on next couple of groups .



I have a feeling that if I add about a pound this this gun, it would be a lot easier to shoot. Maybe lead weighting in the barrel channel and some behind the butt pad. I like the light weight, but it definitely feels like the enemy of accuracy in this case. But even as-is, I'm pretty confident that it's capable of 1/2" or less at 50 yards even with cheap ammo (average of the 10 groups is 0.455").

Last edited by rawhp; 05-19-2017 at 10:13 PM.
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  #37  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:16 AM
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In my rifles the upward pressure that causes a 1" upward shift @ 50 has been the minimum that they wanted and a little more was usually better although that varied. I think you are on the right track though.

A heavier rifle will almost always be easier to shoot accurately.

Two kinds of accuracy:

Mechanical accuracy, that which in a perfect world the rifle is capable of shooting. This is why people test pistols in Ransom Rests.

Practical accuracy, that which we are able to shoot a rifle in our normal methods of holding it. This where a heavy rifle almost always will shoot better simply because it is easier to shoot well from a bench. This is also why center fire bench rest has weight classes. It just is very hard to make a very light rifle shoot really well.

Another part of "practical" is that we do not want to lug a 15 pound rifle all day across the desert hunting jack rabbits or through the woods all day chasing squirrels. Actually I DID lug a 11-12 pound rifle for what was probably hundreds of miles across the Mojave Desert of CA chasing jacks back in the 70's and early 80's. A Rem 788 22-250. I was young. Tough. Stupid!!

The other way around my Rem Nylon 11 weighed just a bit over 4 pounds and it was plenty accurate mechanically but it was also very hard to shoot well either from the bench or in field positions. When it comes to building a light rifle be careful what you ask for!!
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  #38  
Old 05-20-2017, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent View Post

Two kinds of accuracy:

Mechanical accuracy, that which in a perfect world the rifle is capable of shooting. This is why people test pistols in Ransom Rests.

Practical accuracy, that which we are able to shoot a rifle in our normal methods of holding it. This where a heavy rifle almost always will shoot better simply because it is easier to shoot well from a bench. This is also why center fire bench rest has weight classes. It just is very hard to make a very light rifle shoot really well.
Thanks, great info! I may be closer on the mechanical accuracy based on what I'm seeing, but I'll still do some experiments around the amount of pressure in the current pad location.

Thinking of making 2 RTV pads using Hawkeye57/86c's method with painter's tape underneath; supporting the barrel and hanging a 2 1/2lb and 5lb weight from the front sling mount while it cures; and maybe a few other combinations to give me better control over how much pressure I'm applying, and the ability to switch them out while testing.

As far as weight goes, I'm currently at exactly 7lbs, with the scope, but pretty light up front, balance-wise. My next range session may involve some duct tape and a 1lb weight duct taped to the bottom of the stock's forearm just to test the effect of more weight up front before doing anything permanent. I can move the weight to the butt end too to test that as well. Of course, the final solution won't be visible, since I'm pretty sure SuperStock doesn't include duct tape and a lead weight hanging off of the stock.
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  #39  
Old 06-03-2017, 11:10 AM
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SuperDuck wearing a new barrel. 22" GM SS fluted sporter that was an impulse buy off of ebay (new, unfired). I like the longer barrel look, and balance. It's only 3.8 oz heavier than the 18" barrel, but the weight is noticeable (good) and slightly more forward. The balance point with the 18" was right under the mag release, and now it's about 1 1/2" foward from that (first third of the mag well), and balances nicely offhand without feeling heavy. Barrel is 32.42 oz on my scale.

Searched all over the forum and internet and couldn't find anything on a GM stainless fluted sporter in this length, so perhaps it was from a limited run. Same length as the Ruger 10/22 stainless "long barrel". The contour is slighly heavier than the 18" barrel, so took a little more fitting to the stock.


Last edited by rawhp; 11-16-2017 at 10:13 PM.
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  #40  
Old 06-04-2017, 07:02 AM
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I also like the look of the longer barrel. It may also be a little quieter with standard velocity 22 lr.

As we know the longer barrel will reduce velocity a bit but that is a good thing with the rounds that are verging on supersonic.

I like a muzzle heavy rifle for off hand shooting, or any shooting for that matter.

As for fitting, if you kept the 18 inch barrel, you can test them both by using either rubber or RTV barrel supports so in the end you have the best of both worlds right now. Experience says the 18 may be a little more accurate but like I always remind all here "Every rifle is a story onto itself" and when you change barrels you have a different rifle. One of the beauties of the Ruger 10/22

Having said the above if there is an accuracy difference I am rooting for the long barrel because I like the look a lot and the other advantages.

You have made a very nice rifle even better!
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  #41  
Old 06-04-2017, 07:04 AM
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A Reminder

You now have an extra barrel. By SuperStock logic that means you NEED to build another rifle....right?
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  #42  
Old 06-09-2017, 09:49 AM
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You now have an extra barrel. By SuperStock logic that means you NEED to build another rifle....right?
Well I wasn't planning on it, until you pointed out it is part of the SuperStock logic. I just ordered two 80% receivers, matte black and silver. The matte black should match the Feddersen barrel nicely. I'm planning another all Ruger (except barrel and receiver) project, on a plain carbine stock (unless I see a really good deal on walnut); a SuperStock sleeper. I may add about 5 oz of lead to the front end of the barrel channel, but externally it should look pretty stock.
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  #43  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:54 PM
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First Range Trip with 22" GM Sporter

Made it to the range to break-in my new 22" GM Sporter barrel. Weather was warm and the wind was blowing between 7-10mph, pretty typical at my range.



I followed the GM break-in instructions, cleaning the bore every 10 rounds for the first 100. I used CCI SV bulk ammo for the break-in; first time trying it, but it seemed to shoot about the same as the boxed stuff.



I started with the barrel fully floated and shot 30 rounds off target to get thing sighted, then moved to the bulls. Given that each group was starting with a clean bore, the barrel showed promise immediately, and got better during the break-in. By the fifth bull, I could see the groups tightening. After the 100 round break-in, I shot two 5 round groups with the fouled bore.



I tried several types of ammo, shooting three 5 round groups of each. I didn't find any that the barrel didn't like, but the tests weren't extensive enough to get a real idea of which would shoot best (groups were still settling by the third group, due t the differences in lube). I tried, in order, TAC-22, GECO Semi-Auto, SK+, SK Pistol Match, Wolf Match Target, Wolf Match Extra, Midas +, and Eley Club.

Both Midas + and GECO shot pretty tiny groups in the test so I tried several more groups of GECO while the barrel with still floated. I was shooting pretty fast, trying to time the groups while the wind was consistent. I'd say half the groups were respectable given the conditions.



Decided to try a pressure pad, starting at the fore end tip, then moving backwards. I got about 1"-1/4" back which seemed like a goood spot for now.



I didn't have time to redo my testing of all of the ammo with the pad in place, but tried SK+ to see if it had responded to the pad as well. The wind was blowing pretty good by then, but I feel like on a calmer day, the SK+ could produce some nice (consistent) groups.



I really like the GM barrel. Even though it only added a few ounces of weight, the weight was more forward, and the gun was a LOT easier to control on the rest. Near the end of the session, it felt like fine tuning how I was grasping the rear bag and stock was really helping. I can't wait to shoot it again!!


Last edited by rawhp; 06-17-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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  #44  
Old 06-17-2017, 09:18 AM
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Perfect!!

THAT folks is how you test a SuperStock rifle!!

Excellent job. I know it is a PIA but, heck, you get to shoot right?

I am also convinced that with the GM barrels the break in works. I got so I did not even target them except the 1st and 5th and 10th groups and then when I was done.
All the rest of the 100 rounds or so was just plinking and cleaning.

Rifle is shooting very well now isn't it? Like I said, Great Job!
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Last edited by Vincent; 06-19-2017 at 09:11 AM.
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  #45  
Old 06-17-2017, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
THAT folks is how you test a SuperStock rifle!!

Excellent job. I know it is a PIA but, heck, you get to shoot right?

I am also convinced that with the GM barrels the break in works. KI got so I did not even target them except the 1st and 5th and 10th groups and then when I was done.
All the rest of the 100 rounds or so was just plinking and cleaning.

Rifle is shooting very well now isn't it? Like I said, Great Job!
Thanks, I'm having a great time with this. I took some time on the first bull when breaking it in, but after I saw how it was doing, I was shooting the rest as fast as the range rules would allow (we're a "slow fire" range, unless there's a competition going on) just so I could see how it would really shoot. I'm convinced that the barrel is still improving, so I'll shoot it as is for a while before making any more tweaks.
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