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  #136  
Old 06-02-2019, 12:12 PM
Mossbergman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flylo View Post
https://www.gunpolicy.org/documents/...any-other/file

https://www.quora.com/What-handgun-c...he-most-people

Who knows what facts are correct, A 22 could be a 223 which is much more lethal.
I think i made menetion of that fact ,it because it's a caliber owned by almost everyone ,NOT the caLIBER OF CHOICE FOR DEFENSE ~~JMJ~~
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  #137  
Old 06-02-2019, 12:23 PM
Mossbergman
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Originally Posted by Dirty Whiteboy View Post
Conventional wisdom had the world as a flat object at one time, and conventional wisdom had tomatoes as poisonous. You would be surprised at how many shots is takes to incapacitate someone with a 9mm, 40 s&w, 45acp, you would also be surprised that a 22 lr is right there with a 45 acp, probably because you can shoot one more accurately because of less recoil.
LOL Your jobless philosopher part is starting to really show . i kenw when this post came up it was going to be circus...Fact the 22ler has killed more people (there's reason) fact it does not have the energy to stop an assualent bent on taking your life .Yeah he may die .you may too before he does if he has the supior weapon . But him dying later don't count when seconds matter . ~~ Remember ~ ~COPS ARRIVE IN TIME TO DRAW CHALK LINES ~IT'S UP TO YOU TO SEE THE OUTLINE ISN'T AROUND YOU ~~JMJ~~
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  #138  
Old 06-02-2019, 01:19 PM
Oldmountain2

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Sooooo....
After all the posts, a few ‘flames’ & lots of good info & good opinions.
Summary:
- carry what you can shoot.
- be very aware of limitations of all self defense.
- have a gun, a plan, practice practice practice!
Many Thanks
Many Thanks
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  #139  
Old 06-02-2019, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossbergman View Post
LOL Your jobless philosopher part is starting to really show . i kenw when this post came up it was going to be circus...Fact the 22ler has killed more people (there's reason) fact it does not have the energy to stop an assualent bent on taking your life .Yeah he may die .you may too before he does if he has the supior weapon . But him dying later don't count when seconds matter . ~~ Remember ~ ~COPS ARRIVE IN TIME TO DRAW CHALK LINES ~IT'S UP TO YOU TO SEE THE OUTLINE ISN'T AROUND YOU ~~JMJ~~
I'm pretty sure I am just way more confident in my abilities with a firearm, rather than relying on a caliber to make up for my lack of marksmanship. Energy doesn't kill people, holes do, holes through the right organs.
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  #140  
Old 06-02-2019, 01:34 PM
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As I stated before a 12 ga is the best IMHO, as the military found out in WW2.
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  #141  
Old 06-02-2019, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Whiteboy View Post
you would also be surprised that a 22 lr is right there with a 45 acp, probably because you can shoot one more accurately because of less recoil.
Pffft, not me. I shoot my 22 just as poorly as my 45 hence my lasered up defense pistols.

If one has to rely on a 22 pistol use hollow points because a 22 pistol is loud and the hp's will sting more by causing more tissue destruction.
No one has mentioned the surge of adrenalin one will experience and it is a very big factor when it comes to loss of accuracy and a common person's hopes of instant incapacitation of a perp in a very tense situation. You won't know until after it happens how you will perform, no matter how many times you type about it.
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  #142  
Old 06-02-2019, 04:06 PM
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At handgun velocities most 22lr hollow points do not expand. Rifle is a different story.
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  #143  
Old 06-02-2019, 05:52 PM
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Any gun with you is better than any one home in the safe so pick one you'll carry everyday as the perp may not be looking at you & even if he is he won't know what caliber. It will change the dynamics of the situation. I think we've beat this poor horse to death several times so carry whay you want, I do.
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  #144  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JTJ View Post
At handgun velocities most 22lr hollow points do not expand.
Good point, in which case I'd suggest CCI's Segmented 40grn hv ammo.
The 710 fps Segmented separates into 3 pieces in most tree rats I've shot so the hv stuff in a pistol ought to do the deed IMO.
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  #145  
Old 06-02-2019, 09:47 PM
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A bullet from a 22lr handgun need all the penetration it can get. I will stick with 40 grain CCI Minimags.
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  #146  
Old 06-03-2019, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Al the Infidel View Post
Good point, in which case I'd suggest CCI's Segmented 40grn hv ammo.
The 710 fps Segmented separates into 3 pieces in most tree rats I've shot so the hv stuff in a pistol ought to do the deed IMO.
ETA- here's the link to CCI's Segmented hv ammo. https://www.targetsportsusa.com/cci-...c-p-83039.aspx
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  #147  
Old 06-03-2019, 11:17 AM
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The LR for defense has five sides -- excellent in accuracy, low recoil, minimal muzzle blast, pretty good on lethality poor on incapacitation. For defensive use the obvious approach is many shots in the shortest time as accurately as possible. These must hit vital areas. Practice is the answer. The leathality of light HV, HP bullets is very poor owing to lack of penetration. According to the late Dr. Martin Fackler, the foremost expert in wound ballistics. The only ammunition suitable in low power handguns -- .22, .25, .32 is solid "ball" rounds as these will penetrate to vital areas. In discussing this question with Brett Olin, former rimfire engineer at CCI, their best penetrating round is the Mini Mag with the Velocitor running a very close second in ballistic gelatin. It may be added that a light semi-auto rifle with a 20+ round magazine is a better choice than a handgun, but limited to home use. One pocket handgun I tested for a GUN DIGEST piece that performed well was the Phoenix HP .22 -- 10+1 in the mag and reliable function.
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  #148  
Old 06-03-2019, 11:40 AM
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At handgun velocities most 22lr hollow points do not expand. Rifle is a different story.
I've never had a problem with Winchester Super X HPs expanding out of a 6" barrel fired in to newspaper, but a 6" tube is likely too impractical to CCW.
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  #149  
Old 06-03-2019, 11:49 AM
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Is this one done yet? I've run out of popcorn three times...
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  #150  
Old 06-03-2019, 11:59 AM
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Thoughts on ‘Penetration’
The FBI requires 12” penetration in ordnance gelatin. Because for police work you have to allow for odd angles of penetration, cover, clothing, etc. And, again, police want to ‘acquire’ the BG. I don’t.
In assaults on individuals, home or outside, most often (almost always) the BG is facing the intended victim. (duh!)
Now the FBI requirement is not so good. I want ALL the energy released in 6”, not in the wall behind the BG. This is where fragmenting bullets shine. Quik Shok .22’s, even out of a 2” barrel, reliably penetrate and then fragment into 3 wound channels. There was a post earlier about squirrels & QS. The volume of BG’ chest/heart that I want to ‘destroy’ is about the size of a large squirrel. Got the picture? The effect in a ‘head shot’ is equally interesting.

CCI Quik Shok come in 2 types; fast 32gr (1050 FPS crony 2” S&W 317, my choice) and sub sonic 40gr.

Good article on Smith 43c & CCI solids:
https://www.guns.com/news/review/gel...und-that-could
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