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Old 01-03-2019, 01:41 PM
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Range Flag Positions



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New Year greetings to all, I hope you all enjoyed the Xmas Holidays and the turkey.

I know how to read the wind but have never shot with dedicated range flags before, I just used the normal Red Range Danger Flag which always flies over the berm when a range is in use (live fire).

If one had only TWO FLAGS, where on a 50yd BR range would you recommend setting the flags?

And, I guess the follow up question is why you decided on these positions?

Appreciate the info.

Giz
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Old 01-03-2019, 05:02 PM
doclu60
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[QUOTE=Gizmo60;11294529]
[I know how to read the wind but have never shot with dedicated range flags before, I just used the normal Red Range Danger Flag which always flies over the berm when a range is in use (live fire).]

Giz, I'll take a stab at this. I'm pretty new, but have learned a little. First off, reading the wind from one flag on the berm, is most likely very different from reading wind from flags placed along the actual bullet path to the target.

[If one had only TWO FLAGS, where on a 50yd BR range would you recommend setting the flags?]

I use 5-6 flags. If only allowed to use 2, one would be right in front of the bench set in the area where the canopy effects the up/down draft the most. Keep in mind, I use a dual vane up/downer flag as my first. This flag spins on the axis to show direction, but also moves up or down if vertical drafts are present. I have been taught by mentors that the wind closest to the the rifle effects the bullet more than wind down range. That is the reason my first flag is close and is a multi position flag. Every match I go to has shooters setting a flag close to the bench. When running more flags than you suggest, they are set at 7yd intervals from each other. Most feel the closest wind is the most important. I see over 50% of the shooters setting a flag close to the target. I do as well, but it is my second up/downer flag. I also elevate the flags to get as close to the bullet path as possible without them obscuring my line of sight, or, shooting them. If I only could have 2 flags, I would set the second out about 14-21 yards from the first and experiment by shooting sighters to see what info the flag distance is telling me. Of course this could only be done during a practice range session.

[And, I guess the follow up question is why you decided on these positions?]

Why do I do it this way? Well, as a guy only entering his 4th season, I rely on information I can get from others with more experience. I am fortunate to have shot with some VERY good BR shooters. The guy that told me about distance between flags is a top ten IR50/50 Hall of Fame shooter. Hard to argue those credentials, and guys that can run with him in a match have their flags set almost exactly where his are. Many have told me the first flags are normally the most important. All of them read wind better than me. Elevation tip was given to me by another Hall of Fame guy, and my closest mentor I have. I shoot with him several times a month during the outdoor season. He does NOT put a flag close to the target.

There is a lot to reading the wind, to say, turning that wind reading into shooting the condition. A 10 mph cross wind left to right at one club may very well be different to the same at another club. Shooting sighters to verify hold off from the flags must be implemented as well.

[Appreciate the info.] I don't know if I helped or not, but my scores have improved with the flag suggestions I have been given by others......who normally beat me!

Giz

Last edited by doclu60; 01-04-2019 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:46 PM
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Thanks Doc, appreciated.

Shooting forever but still a rookie and learning the BR game. Why I asked was, I see shooters with no flags, a good few using 2/3 and then a hand-full using up to six. Seems those using 5/6 flags are the better scorers, that being said, they also have top dollar high end/purpose built gear.

Your suggestions are in the main similar to what some have told me, I thought it better to put the question out there to those that really know.

Many thanks for the info, I'm going to start with two flags for the moment spaced as you suggested, learn more and take it from there.

Giz

Last edited by Gizmo60; 01-03-2019 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Gizmo60 View Post
Thanks Doc, appreciated.

Shooting forever but still a rookie and learning the BR game. Why I asked was, I see shooters with no flags, a good few using 2/3 and then a hand-full using up to six. Seems those using 5/6 flags are the better scorers, that being said, they also have top dollar high end/purpose built gear.

Your suggestions are in the main similar to what some have told me, I thought it better to put the question out there to those that really know.

Many thanks for the info, I'm going to start with two flags for the moment spaced as you suggested, learn more and take it from there.

Giz
Giz,

I only use 2 flags also, but I also use an wind-indicator too, I place 1-flag and the indicator about 20-25 feet from the bench, I place the flag so it is inline of my bullets flight path so I know the condition I shot was in direct path the bullet traveled.

my second flag is about 20-feet in front of target. again aligned with the bullets flight path.
I normally will concentrate on the front flag and indicator and will also look at the flag at the target. just before I take the shot the indicator has been the best aid for helping me improve.
Scott gave some good advice as he shoots with some very high tier shooters, I am self taught I guess you can say, at local club matches I do very well, at sanctioned matches of which I have only shot 2 in the past 2-years I have placed in the top 3 so I do ok at that level I guess.
this is my setup-


Lee
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Old 01-03-2019, 09:15 PM
linekin
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Seems like I do something different every time. Its what ever suits me that day I guess. I use anywhere from 3-5 with at least 1 probe. I like the 1st no more than 10 yds from the bench, my the 2nd at about 20yds, my small probe in front of it, one at 30, 40, & last in front of the target. If super windy I like a 2nd probe at about 35yds. If I'm feeling lazy that day I'll leave the last & 30yd flags, & 2nd probe in the truck.
Funny thing, when I shoot centerfire at 100 I only use 3 flags. That's it!
I've put as many as 9 flags out there once & 3 probes in an attempt to confuse my competitors. It only worked on me!! You really wanna get some laughs get some of those wobbling lawn ornaments & set them out there. A paddling duck or something of the like. Its pretty funny when its windy! Alls I can say is when you see its arms flailling around & it jumping up & down....don't shoot!

Keith
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:37 AM
doclu60
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Hey Lee, a minimalist approach for sure, but you have done well at Rio when you have shot there! Do what works for you. More info below.

Keith, I used to play around with my spread as well. I was running 7 flags for awhile, too much clutter.....overloaded my little brain!

I use kind of a combo flag as three of what is mostly a 5 flag spread. It's a cross between a flag and a wind indicator. Bob Putzbach (spelling?) in New York makes them. Single vane flag with a wind indicating paddle that moves on the vane to show velocity. Most wind indicators are rigid and are great for cross wind, but IMO, loose some effectiveness when the wind is quartering. My combo flags are always pointed into the wind and their paddle is catching velocity in a straight line to the wind. The other 2 are Ray Hill dual vane (Wicks style) up/downers. I use the up/downers for canopy induced vertical wind movement at the line and the flag close to the target. Kinda like Keith's lawn ornaments......if either is pointed up or down, DON'T shoot!

I did, overall, shoot better last season. Part of it was shooting more matches, more flag reading practice 'real world'. The other part was shooting more sighters, which goes hand in hand with getting to know the flags better. Confirm your flag info with a sighter/sighters. If it takes several, then shoot several. Flags change, more sighters. I try to develop at least 2 conditions when shooting a card. When the flags change from one known condition to another known condition, I shoot sighters again before going to score. Things can change during the course of a card, lots of things.

Last edited by doclu60; 01-04-2019 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by doclu60 View Post
Hey Lee, a minimalist approach for sure, but you have done well at Rio when you have shot there! Do what works for you. More info below.

Keith, I used to play around with my spread as well. I was running 7 flags for awhile, too much clutter.....overloaded my little brain!

I use kind of a combo flag as three of what is mostly a 5 flag spread. It's a cross between a flag and a wind indicator. Bob Putzbach (spelling?) in New York makes them. Single vane flag with a wind indicating paddle that moves on the vane to show velocity. Most wind indicators are rigid and are great for cross wind, but IMO, loose some effectiveness when the wind is quartering. My combo flags are always pointed into the wind and their paddle is catching velocity in a straight line to the wind. The other 2 are Ray Hill dual vane (Wicks style) up/downers. I use the up/downers for canopy induced vertical wind movement at the line and the flag close to the target. Kinda like Keith's lawn ornaments......if either is pointed up or down, DON'T shoot!

I did, overall, shoot better last season. Part of it was shooting more matches, more flag reading practice 'real world'. The other part was shooting more sighters, which goes hand in hand with getting to know the flags better. Confirm your flag info with a sighter/sighters. If it takes several, then shoot several. Flags change, more sighters. I try to develop at least 2 conditions when shooting a card. When the flags change from one known condition to another known condition, I shoot sighters again before going to score. Things can change during the course of a card, lots of things.
Thanks Scott, you mention something that I believe is the most important when using flags.sighters flags give you an idea, sigthers give you what is actual

I shoot a 50/100 match in which you can't use flags so sighters are the only aid, so I been learning how important they are.

Lee
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Old 01-05-2019, 04:03 PM
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Doc, Lee & Keith.

Thanks for the info, most appreciated.

Going to start with just two flags and I'll use your recommendations on placement.

Giz
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