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But the Ejector Does matter!

4K views 31 replies 13 participants last post by  harryset 
#1 ·
Well, I know we've debated the importance of the 10/22 ejector. I've been working on a low miles aluminum trigger group rifle that's a picky eater. I have been playing with some old Butler Creek magazines without the steel feed lips and one Eagle magazine that has plastic feed lips shaped like the steel ones. Trying some crappy federal champion in the rifle, it was choking many times a magazine with the Butler Creek magazines but not as much with the Eagle. I realize now because the ammo isn't consistently cycling the bolt all the way back, the magazine ejector on the Eagle being farther forward is kicking cases out sooner than the Butler Creek magazines which rely on the fixed ejector in the trigger group, causing a lot of stovepipe malfunctions. I pulled the gun apart and dressed the tip of the ejector with a file to change the angle a bit. I am hoping that the malfunctions with the Butler Creek magazines will be eliminated. Not sure if I will need a better extractor yet. rc
 
#3 ·
rc. said:
I pulled the gun apart and dressed the tip of the ejector with a file to change the angle a bit. I am hoping that the malfunctions with the Butler Creek magazines will be eliminated. Not sure if I will need a better extractor yet. rc
The ejector tip should be square and parallel to the breech. I don't think dressing it with an angle on the tip will do anything but cause it to wear faster.

First, check the ejector (and trigger group/housing) for looseness. It will cause problems if it can wiggle around. Next, look at the FTE brass for the ejector impact (around 7 o'clock). Too close to the rim will indicate the ejector is adding too much spin to the case, and not enough push toward the ejection port. You may need to bend the ejector slightly toward center. Be careful not to make the ejector become loose while doing so. Hold the base with a plier while only bending the forward portion. Lastly, check the extractor. They do need replaced/upgraded from time to time. I change mine around a 10k round count to avoid stovepipe problems from starting.
 
#6 ·
rc. You already know that primary "ejector" on a Ruger 10-22 is actually part of the feed lips on the magazine itself- or should be. The little steel ejector on the trigger group is only supposed to come into play when ejecting a round with the magazine removed from the rifle.
That's why so many mags with plastic feed lips make for crappy cycling.
You also know that the best way to check your mags is to remove the secondary ejector from the trigger group, then manually cycle with each magazine installed.
In my collection, any mag that doesn't eject properly is tuned if I can, and tossed out if it won't kick 'em a good 3-5 feet to the side & forward.

My .02¢, FWIW

DrGunner
 
#11 ·
More fun

While you're playing with that process, try running your gun without an extractor. The extractor's only job is to extract unfired rounds was mentioned here some years ago so I tried it on one of my .22lr 10/22s. It ran just fine without the extractor when being fired. The extractor doesn't pull the case out when you fire the gun. Rather, the same pressure that expels the bullet pushes the case and bolt rearward causing the case to contact the ejector which pops it out of the ejection port. That's why it's called a "blowback" action. It will not work when cycling the bolt manually. Class dismissed. :)
 
#15 ·
wonshott said:
I tried the no extractor experiment after hearing that myth 20 years ago. lots of stovepipes with no extractor in my experience.
I haven't tried this experiment with a 10/22, but I did try it with a Mark pistol. 50% of rounds ejected & 50% stovepiped. The extractor does help guide the trajectory of the ejecting case. I suspect you could replace the hooked extractor with one that has the hook trimmed off (& inward swing limited) and the stovepipes would mostly all go away.
 
#16 ·
wonshott said:
I tried the no extractor experiment after hearing that myth 20 years ago. lots of stovepipes with no extractor in my experience.
I haven't tried this experiment with a 10/22, but I did try it with a Mark pistol. 50% of rounds ejected & 50% stovepiped. The extractor does help guide the trajectory of the ejecting case. I suspect you could replace the hooked extractor with one that has the hook trimmed off (& inward swing limited) and the stovepipes would mostly all go away.
I don't know about that. Considering the amount of people who were having problems with fte's, stovepipes, etc with the OEM extractor installed that all managed to be fixed by swapping it out for a VQ, Kidd, or some other type of aftermarket one. The reason the aftermarket ones work better is because of the difference in the shape of the "hook"/claw compared to the OEM.
 
#17 ·
Test_Engineer said:
I suspect you could replace the hooked extractor with one that has the hook trimmed off (& inward swing limited) and the stovepipes would mostly all go away.

Nick7274 said:
I don't know about that. Considering the amount of people who were having problems with fte's, stovepipes, etc with the OEM extractor installed that all managed to be fixed by swapping it out for a VQ, Kidd, or some other type of aftermarket one. The reason the aftermarket ones work better is because of the difference in the shape of the "hook"/claw compared to the OEM.
Note- the comparison was a non-extractor vs. no extractor, NOT an OEM extractor vs. no extractor. We all know a good aftermarket extractor works better than an OEM one.

The stovepipe problem with the OEM extractor is it tends to push against the case forward of the rim instead of at the junction of the body and the rim. This makes the ejecting case tip inward before it reaches the ejector, instead of sitting square as it hits the ejector.

With my proposed non-extractor, it would not touch the ejecting case at all until the ejector tips it outward. The case should sit square if the only force acting on it is the pressure of burning gasses. I think I'll dig around and see if I can find an old extractor I can modify (remove the hook and reshape) and test the theory.

Gives me something interesting to do while the country is shut down. :bthumb:
 
#21 ·
Update

I changed out the factory extractor with a power custom tool steel unit with extra power spring and ran 50 rounds of Federal Champion through 2 butler creek magazines. This ammo has been problematic in several semi autos but can run ok in some. The new extractor had a light strike probably because the bolt didn't seat on the round due to extractor tension from the spring holding the bolt back. There was a click but no mark on the case. It then chewed through 50 rounds with 3 stovepipe failures. So I went back in and changed out the ejector that I had tweeked a bit with a brand new factory one I had ordered. I loaded another 50 rounds into the two magazines. I had another first shot light strike and then the gun chewed through 50 rounds with no stovepipes. So both the extractor and ejector had some effect on cycling with these magazines that do not have the ejector built in. Time will tell as I put more rounds down range with this carbine weather or not the cycling issue is solved. I do accept that ammo quality plays a huge role in reliability with 22s. I will be running more types of ammunition with a mix of magazines as I get time to fiddle more with this.
 
#22 ·
I put more rounds through this gun today with the tool steel extractor. No stovepipes in about 100 rounds using ruger 10 round and butler creek 25 round magazines. The annoying problem that has replaced stovepipe jams is light strikes mostly on the first round chambered.
 
#23 ·
I totally respect your desire to tinker, I went through a similar process 20 years ago.
The problems in my case always centered around the Butler Creek and similar production plastic mags. I got rid of them and only use Ruger BX10, BX25 and Tactical Innovations TI-25 mags. All 6 of the custom 10-22s in my safe run fine with all the mags I have. Good luck with your pursuit-

DrGunner
 
#24 ·
Limited to what I have DrGunner. I removed the power custom tool steel extractor which was rough as hell to the touch and sanded the flats and polished the tip so it will slip over the rim better. Took it out and fired off 100 rounds + of Federal Champion..... no jams! The extractor has made a difference with stovepipe jams but if it's too stiff it can cause misfires too I'm finding out. Hoping that dang first shot light strike doesn't keep creeping up on me. I've had that issue with another build and couldn't figure out what was causing it. It had an aftermarket extractor installed for the heavy barrel years ago. Had my sights on a squirrel earlier today after chambering a round from a 10 shot mag..... Click!

I have a blued early 80s gun I have set up with tech sights I also wanted to tinker with. I shot that one a bit today and it had a stovepipe. I broke it apart this evening and installed the Volquartzen extractor and spring I had ordered as a backup since I knew it could go in one of my other rifles. The original extractor in this other gun was not holding the case against the bolt face very well before I changed it. The Volquartzen is smoother and snapped into place without fitting or fumbling. This older early 80s rifle had a better machined bolt and less headspace from the factory compared to the 2006ish camo carbine I had been playing with. So we will see if the Volquartzen extractor turns out to be the best one. I'm curious how it will fling the cases tomorrow.

Once I had the power custom extractor polished up, I felt like my rifle was getting better ignition and shooting a bit more consistently with the spent cases being ejected a bit farther. Possibly the gun was not going fully into battery and the headspace was being affected by the new extractor. tension.
 
#28 ·
The extractor has made a difference with stovepipe jams but if it's too stiff it can cause misfires too I'm finding out
Have you tried using the aftermarket extractor with the OEM spring? I run VQ extractors in many of my 10/22's but I don't use the spring that comes with them. I remember years ago when I first heard about the VQ extractors there were a lot of people who were still having issues after installing them. It seemed for the most part that the problems were eliminated by keeping the OEM extractor spring installed with the VQ extractor. I've been running all mine this way for a long time and I don't have any issues at all. I should mention that I only use Ruger OEM BX-1 10 round magazines.
 
#25 ·
Well, it certainly sounds like you have a solid handle on what is happening with yours and why, so more power to you, sir!

Half the battle is knowing what parts cause which malfunctions in these click clacks, and it sounds to me like you understand more than most-

Regards,

DrGunner
 
#26 ·
its not the ejector thats failing. the ejector has one of the easiest jobs on earth. it literally just stands there and punches the next guy in the face, all day long. your just proving that giving the extractor more time and distance, gives the extractor more chances to mess up.
 
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