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  #16  
Old 11-15-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pblanc View Post
If conditions are such that one's elbows are raw by the second day of a weekend AS event, using elbow pads makes a whole lot more sense than not being able to continue to participate.
You bring up an excellent point, and I alluded to that in a post above.

I've never at any other event/discipline shot as much "quantity" wise, that I have at Appleseed events.

I think that the events are too fast paced. There is the push to get many AQTs in, and sometimes quality instruction is sacrificed.

Just my opinion....

When I was instructing, I think I had one of the highest shot count events at one point. I do not think that helped anyone.

Once the elbows start to get raw, and they will get raw even when shooting on a mat, that is the point performance will start to degrade. I cannot honestly state I shot my best scores when in pain.

Surely, adding elbow pads at that point won't help the cause either, LOL

Some of my better events (qualification wise) were when we spent a lot of time on position work and really stressing the finer points of the 6 steps of firing the shot. I've seen miracles happen with some attendees when we took a little more time to ensure the instruction was comprehended and received.

I've attended several events lately not as an instructor and I simply choose to "sit out" a few of the AQTs when I feel I am getting worn out.
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by pblanc View Post
The highest score I have yet achieved in Appleseed was shot wearing volleyball elbow pads, better than I have achieved with either of two different shooting jackets/coats.
Wow! I would have to state (non confontationally) that you either do not have a coat that fits well, or....you have a flaw in the fundamental position.

For me personally (data here), I know in Appleseed on the squares targets and in slow prone, the shooting coat for me is worth 1 MOA of hold! That is fact.

The coat significantly reduces the pulse, provides a repeatable non slip place for the stock to go (the same exact spot every time) and reduces recoil.

I'd revisit those targets with and without a coat Pblanc, you may find that as your steady hold factors improved, the coat provides you with more value.
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  #18  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:09 PM
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For the purposes of Appleseed my hold in prone is pretty steady and better than many of the instructors. I have gotten perfect scores on Stage 4 of the AQT quite a few times to the point I am pretty aggravated with myself if I do not.

And I have gotten perfect scores on Stage 3 a good number of times as well.

Let me ask you a question or two. What type of elbow pads did you use that you had such a miserable experience with? Where they the hard shell type? Because if so, we are talking about two very different things.

Second, do you take the pads on your shooting coats off? If not, explain why a soft elbow pad sewn on the outside of a shooting coat will not create a pivot point, whereas a soft pad of similar thickness secured to the arm with snug elastic will?

I am talking about the pros and cons of elbow pads only. I understand and agree that a good shooting coat provides additional benefits such as torso support for offhand shooting, paddling on the support arm for the sling, and a recoil pad to minimize slippage of the butt stock. But for prone shooting with a 22lr rifle, I have not found that a shooting coat improves my scores. As for pulse beat, I have not found that to be much of a problem in prone shooting, although it is a problem for me sitting. A soft elastic knee pad worn on my upper support arm works as well as the pads on my shooting coat (Creedmoor deluxe canvas) or shooting jacket for padding the sling and reducing pulse beat.

I agree with you that many Appleseed events are far too fast paced, especially when a shoot boss starts running AQT "grinds" that provide virtually no time between the "range is clear" and the "shooters, your prep period has begun" announcements. I will typically sit out at least half of the AQTs, but even then the time between the individual stages are less than I would have liked.

Last edited by pblanc; 11-15-2019 at 12:24 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:12 PM
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Tough comparison with the pads on the coat, they are not removable, but.... they do not shift because the shoulders are very tight, and the pads are attached to the coat, significantly reducing any opportunity for movement variation.

The pads I used were not volleyball, yet they were not solid on the outside either. They just did not work well "for me".

We can agree to disagree, I still maintain I know of no one shooting well, or at a high level that advocates or uses any sort of elbow padding, aside from what is already attached to the coats most wear.

I feel adding any type of padding aside from that which comes standard on a reputable shooting coat will be more of a hindrance to a shooters progression.

I'll also state, volleyball type padding should not keep anyone from scoring 210 on an AQT. But, to get in the upper 240s it may.

R/
Chris

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  #20  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:31 PM
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I do not think anybody is suggesting using elbow pads in addition to the elbow padding that comes on quality shooting coats and jackets. Nor am I suggesting removing the elbow pads from such a coat. I'm sure that everyone who has a serious interest in CMP or NRA high power competition already owns a dedicated shooting coat, so using elbow pads would not come into consideration.

The question is what, if anything, to use if one does not own a shooting coat. I think this is what the OP was asking. In some cases, with a decent shooting mat wearing a sweatshirt will provide enough padding. In other cases, it might not, or the conditions may be such that the shooter doesn't want to wear a sweatshirt. At some AS events, the firing line is set up on gravel. Some AS participants show up with only a thin tarp or some such for use as a shooting mat, in which case some type of elbow padding is a worthwhile consideration.

This is the type of volleyball elbow pad that I have used and would recommend to the OP:

https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/tan...dCatid=5443204

They are not terribly expensive so the OP won't be out a lot if he or she gives them a try. The pad sewn into the inside of these is only about 5/16" thick so they will not ball up under the elbow. After prolonged use however, the pad will compress in the location directly under your elbow to the point at which you may need to spring for a new pair.

Sometimes I will use a pad only on the elbow of the support arm as the firing arm elbow does not seem subject to as much pressure and sheer stress. I have found that the elastic bands on these hold the pad very securely in place on the elbow so there is no tendency for the pad to shift on the elbow. Less tendency if fact, than the pad on a shooting coat to shift under the elbow, since the sleeves on such coats can never be so tight as to prevent any movement of the arm and elbow within the sleeve.

Last edited by pblanc; 11-15-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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  #21  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pblanc View Post

This is the type of volleyball elbow pad that I have used and would recommend to the OP:

https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/tan...dCatid=5443204
There are thicker foam pads sold as kneepads for gardeners. I've wondered whether just gluing those to the exterior of an old canvas coat would suffice for prone.

Last edited by zukiphile; 11-15-2019 at 03:21 PM.
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  #22  
Old 12-09-2019, 10:21 PM
R4000

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At an appleseed you will typically spend two days on your elbows. I don't care what kind of shooting mat you bring, without elbow pads, you will be very sore soon enough. By the second day you will be bleeding. The skin on your elbows may be permanently changed so that it is more sensitive, forever.

I have shooting jackets. They're great for CMP matches, where I shoot my three strings and then go home. After 30 minutes in the July sun and I am done with that.

My preferred attire for appleseed is a long sleeved cotton T-shirt over volley ball type kneepads which are on my elbows. Academy Sports has the best ones, just a simple rectangle. The way volleyball kneepads are constructed, they really protect your elbows well. Actual brand isn't important. Whatever fits and is most comfortable for you is good.

Long sleeves give your sling something to grab onto. Slings tend to slide on people who wear the free appleseed T-shirt or other with short sleeves.

A support hand shooting glove also helps. It keeps your sweaty hand from sliding on the fore stock.

Things that improve comfort and reduce muscle strain will improve your accuracy.

That said I think that the elbow pads also improve stability in the sitting and standing positions as well. Good shooting jackets have similar built in padding for the standing position. I am not just making this up.
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