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  #1  
Old 10-22-2010, 11:08 PM
canadiangunnut

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Supermatic Citation Military trouble...shooting



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Howdy, I recently purchased a Supermatic Citation Military and had it out today at the range for the first time.
I was shooting bulk federal as that was all I had.
This gun was missing the slide stop spring when I got it and on the first shot it bounced up and locked the slide.... after that I held it down with one of my weak hand fingers and continued to shoot. The gun fed and ejected the ammo smoothly but every 5 or 6 shots I'd get a stoppage due to nothing happening when the trigger was pulled. I would clear the un touched round and let the next one feed in and then I could continue for another series of shots until the problem would repeat.
It seems like the striker ( if that's the right term) was not being re-cocked even though the precious case was ejected and a new one feed in.
I also had one small burst which sounded like 3-4 shots from one trigger which makes my limited smith mind think there may be a problem with the sear?
There's something going on and I was hoping that someone here could shine a light on where to start..... I did a basic strip down and clean and the gun was dirty and there is also some rust pitting.
Is there any online resources for stripping the gun right down?

Thanks, Charley
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  #2  
Old 10-23-2010, 12:05 AM
grandparem
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For the multiple shots, you might increase the trigger pull and try that. also if you are "limp wristing" it, the bounce when the slide goes forward can cause you to actually fire it again... I have not had that with a HS , but have with a Browning.
Also hope your bulk ammo was not high velocity... that is a "no-no" for High Standard Military frames.
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Old 10-23-2010, 12:38 AM
canadiangunnut

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Thanks Grandparem, I thought maybe it might have just been a bit of a bump fire but I was holding the gun pretty well even with my finger on the slide stop.

The trigger pull is very light though so I could try and increase that.

As for the ammo it was high velocity and I only fired about 40 rounds.

I've heard different things about the velocity and wouldn't want to run stingers or some other ultra high but is it true that typical bulk .22 is no good for the high standards?

I was also thinking about getting a new recoil spring.

Could too light of a trigger setting also cause the failure to cock?

Last edited by canadiangunnut; 10-23-2010 at 01:04 AM.
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  #4  
Old 10-23-2010, 03:45 AM
canadiangunnut

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OK, I took another look with the grips off.... I forgot there was a hammer in there and not a striker...

Here's a picture of the sear it's barely on the notch in the hammer!

Is this typical?



Also while I'm playing 20 questions I noticed this when I first inspected the gun a few weeks ago when it arrived.

Is this normally what the metal looks like around the ejector?



Thanks for your thoughts....
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  #5  
Old 10-23-2010, 08:31 AM
LDBennett
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canadiangunnut:

Failures to fire can be really a failure of the cartridge to feed correctly with the lead bullet getting marred and distorted and not seating fully into the chamber. The slide then does not fully close and the disconnector keeps the gun from firing.

A new-to-you High Standard pistol like this needs some work before you shoot it. At a minimum it need a new recoil spring (5.5 lb original spring from Brownells). Buy at least 5 slide lock springs, and install one. They are tiny and immediately get all kinked up and need replacement pretty regularly. Go to jaybar's web page and get the drawing for the mag adjustment tool and the instruction on how to adjust the mags. Adjust the mags as he specifies:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbarta/otherstuff.html

Then NEVER shoot anything in the gun except Standard Velocity ammo. That means NO High Velocity, NO Hyper Velocity ammo. Most all the bulk ammos like Federal are Hi Vel ammo so don't use them. The least expensive good accurate Std Vel ammo I have found is CCI Standard Velocity. It costs a little more than Fed or CCI bulk but it is safe for Hi Std use.

Don't risk damaging your gun by shooting the wrong ammo with a less than new stock recoil spring or a slide hold open lever that doen't work correctly. Turn the trigger pull level up too if the trigger seems to light and there is any hint of multiple shots from a single trigger pull.

Then there is the problem of the previous owner and what he did to the gun. A trigger job done incorrectly may need to be corrected. If the sear engagement is too small the hammer may not hold into its engagement shelf. A test that shows if you have safe engagement and sear/hammer engagement angles is to hold the hammer with your thumb lightly and slowly pull the trigger. As you pull the trigger you should be able to feel the hammer cam back before it releases. The action is nearly imperceptible but must be there or the engagement angles have been tinkered with and the gun is unsafe. The sear spring pressure is adjustable on some models and it should not be adjusted too light and that can be tested by bumping the gun when it is cocked to see if the hammer falls (a too little sear engagement gun will fail this test too).

If this is all beyond you then talk with jaybar about setting the gun up correctly. Bad trigger jobs can be corrected and poor feeding can be corrected and maintenance items like the recoil spring can be changed easily by those who know how. jaybar is the man when it comes to Hi STd repairs, as far as I am concerned. But if the gun has to ship from Canada you may have to do it yourself.

LDBennett
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  #6  
Old 10-23-2010, 01:26 PM
jaybar
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Canadiangunnut,

Your pictures show a very typical looking High Standard (including the metal condition around the ejector). Your problem of the gun not "re-cocking" is probably the result of insufficient sear pressure or a damaged sear. Insufficient sear pressure can be a result of the legs of the sear spring not being captured in the sear plunger. Make sure the legs are captured in the plunger and turn the adjusting screw in a few clicks. This may cure your problem. If it doesn't then your sear may be damaged from someone setting the trigger overtravel adjustment too close. We had this discussion recently on this forum. Read the following string thoroughly https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=341292
and note my comments in it. If you still have problems .....post back here.
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Old 10-23-2010, 01:50 PM
canadiangunnut

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Thanks Guys, very helpful information!
The slide was fully returned to battery with a fresh round but nothing in the trigger dept.
I will get some standard ammo and order springs as well. Is there any other spare parts that I should order while I'm at it?

Jaybar, how do I check the legs of the sear spring?


edit, just read the linked thread... thanks Jaybar!

Last edited by canadiangunnut; 10-23-2010 at 02:03 PM.
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  #8  
Old 10-23-2010, 03:53 PM
Alan Aronstein

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Supr. Citation

Sounds like you have received the needed advice. The ejector looks as it might be loose; I would stake it to prevent losing it. We would appreciate you buying 5 slide stop springs from Brownells but, the new springs since(2008) have a larger coil on one end and they will never fall out if installed properly.
Good Shooting- Alan
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  #9  
Old 10-23-2010, 04:32 PM
canadiangunnut

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Thanks Alan, the ejector is tight.
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2010, 05:52 PM
LDBennett
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I would point out that the slide stop spring falling out is not as big a problem as the spring getting mangled simple by the design of the spring and its recesses.

This goes all the way back to the original design. The spring seems to be free to kink during operation and get mashed the next time the slide release is actuated either manually or by the follower on the magazine. Regular replacement is necessary but as long as the slide release is working correctly, the spring probably does not necessarily need to be changed. Spares on hand might be appreciated. And maybe the new spring minimizes kinking (???).

LDBennett
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