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  #16  
Old 04-02-2019, 03:10 PM
mushka
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I have two TC's, a 54 cal and a 36 cal Seneca. The 54 has a 1 in 48 rifling twist that does shoot round balls well out to about 75 yards. I've not shot it at distances much further than that. The Seneca I don't know the twist but it is a short range rifle and will keepem in a squirrels head size group out to 30 yards. I like the
TC's but I have others that cost a lot more but don't shoot any better. Both of my TC's were bought in the mid to late 80's. They are good guns.
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2019, 04:42 PM
fourbore
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All the old T/C muzzle loaders are selling for cheap because 99% of the buyers want the most effective deer rifle the state regulations will allow. Those are great quality guns. I am speaking from first hand experience on this. I think that makes 100% consensus, which has to be a first on RFC!

If I was buying a muzzle loader today with 1,000 budget I would look at the Lyman line. These run maybe $500-700 ball park? They are more authentic than the old TC line. The big TC adjustable sights work very well, but; they dont look right. T/C was best will bullets. The Lyman have a slow twist for balls. Some will. I never had a Lyman. I am saying, this is the brand I would look at today. Oh, I see Lyman was already mentioned. I am 3rd on that.

I would stay away from Pedersoli. The quality for price is not there. Again, from experience.

A really neat gun was the TC 12 ga muzzle loader. Some even had a choke. Mine is open. It works and a lot of fun for hunting. You said target shooting, so slow twist with round balls and real black powder is your deal.

As for bigger is better, a 50 caliber round ball maybe lighter than a 45 maxi ball. I am pretty sure. Balls are traditional and easy to work with.

Last edited by fourbore; 04-02-2019 at 04:49 PM.
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  #18  
Old 04-02-2019, 04:57 PM
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Look what a google turned up. My man shooting a Lyman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZCVQMEwlT0
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  #19  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:40 AM
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A .50 TC Hawken would be an excellent first muzzleloading rifle. The reason the .45's are scarce is because they stopped making them long before they stopped making the .50 and in fewer quantities. Below is a pic of my .45 and .50 TC Hawken rifles. I also built a .54 Lyman Great Plains Rifle from a kit and it is an excellent choice also. Whichever way you choose to go, enjoy sitting in your recliner with your rifle watching "Jeremiah Johnson."
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  #20  
Old 04-19-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Big-Dummy View Post
A .50 TC Hawken would be an excellent first muzzleloading rifle. The reason the .45's are scarce is because they stopped making them long before they stopped making the .50 and in fewer quantities. Below is a pic of my .45 and .50 TC Hawken rifles. I also built a .54 Lyman Great Plains Rifle from a kit and it is an excellent choice also. Whichever way you choose to go, enjoy sitting in your recliner with your rifle watching "Jeremiah Johnson."
I had the T/C Hawkin out at the range last week. 100 grains of Pyrodex FFG under a .50 cal. lead round ball. Accuracy was about a three inch group at 50 yards off a benchrest. In general, it was fun to shoot. I haven't tried any slugs in the Hawkin yet, although I have some to test out on the next range trip. A 1:60 Green Mountain bbl for round ball is available at Track of the Wolff (I think) for about what I paid for the whole rifle.
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  #21  
Old 04-19-2019, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster View Post
I had the T/C Hawkin out at the range last week. 100 grains of Pyrodex FFG under a .50 cal. lead round ball. Accuracy was about a three inch group at 50 yards off a benchrest. In general, it was fun to shoot. I haven't tried any slugs in the Hawkin yet, although I have some to test out on the next range trip. A 1:60 Green Mountain bbl for round ball is available at Track of the Wolff (I think) for about what I paid for the whole rifle.
I've got the Lyman molds for the .45 and .50 caliber Maxi-Balls. My lead came from Rotometals the other day, so I need to get some cast up. I'm going to try beeswax and Crisco for lube. I was lucky enough to get a couple of the POCKETLuber BP lubricating tools from PatMarlins before he quit making them. I burn Pyrodex, so I picked up a couple musket nipples and 1,000 RWS musket caps to help light it off a better.
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  #22  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:32 PM
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Here is a picture of the .54 Lyman Great Plains Rifle I built from a kit. I was going for the old look.
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  #23  
Old 04-19-2019, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
I had the T/C Hawkin out at the range last week. 100 grains of Pyrodex FFG under a .50 cal. lead round ball. Accuracy was about a three inch group at 50 yards off a benchrest.
I'm not sure about Pyrodex,, BUT with black powder the 100 grains is too much for round ball in the 1/48 twist barrel. Most shot better groups than that with 70 grains 2f under the round ball.
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  #24  
Old 04-19-2019, 04:13 PM
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That's super helpful! I am feeling my way with this stuff. I had hoped to use black powder that I made last week in the rifle, but my texture was too fine. I'll try 70 grains of Pyrodex next time out. Cleanup was a breeze. I removed the barrel, stood it in a corner of the shower and poured a kettle of boiling water down the muzzle. Then a bronze brush, a couple of dry patches and some Remoil to coat the bore. I have a 20 lines-per-inch screen now to have another go at powder production. The first (finer) batch of BP will go in a Uberti 44 cal revolver.
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  #25  
Old 04-19-2019, 07:13 PM
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Thompson Centers

A few years ago, when inlines were all the rage, nice TC Hawkens and Renegades could be had for $150 or $200 in my area. But now, when everyone knows they are not making any more, the prices have gone up quite a bit. And most of those have crusty, questionable bores.
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  #26  
Old 06-08-2019, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster View Post
BP Newbie here. I have been shooting a Uberti and Ruger Old Army .44 round ball pistols for the past year. I don't shoot them every time I go to the range, but I enjoy the basic nature of these revolvers. I would like to partner them with a rifle -- a traditional style cap-fired rifle -- but am lost in the number of choices facing a purchaser. Feels like when I was buying my first rifle all over again. Not a bad problem, but there is an "information overload" quality to the experience.

I bid on -- and lost -- a Gunbroker T/C Hawkin .45 rifle, which seemed like a good first choice. But having lost that auction, I am looking at all possibilities.

The purpose is target shooting at 50 and 100 yards, so accuracy is a must, but iron sights would be OK, even preferable. I'm not totally opposed to an in-line model, but if the rifle recommended is an in-line model, I want it to be reliable and ok to use with balls rather than only conical sabots (don't understand yet why it would necessarily be one or the other). I am thinking about getting into casting at some point, although that is, admittedly, several years down the line.

The budget here is sub-$1000 but a "best buy" at a fraction of that would be welcome. For instance, I see that there are new Hawkins in .50 cal for around $400 at Bud's and at Midway and a Kentucky Traditions .50 cal for about $30 less. I don't think my woodworking "skills" are up to a kit.

Also: any insight into why .45 rifles are so scarce? Is there a great accuracy advantage to the .50 cal slug, or is it a "hunting knock-down power" sort of thing?
A Hawken would be a great choice. It is one of the most popular black powder side lock rifles in use. I have been shooting a flintlock .50 cal T/C Hawken in competition for 30+ years and also have a .54 caplock Hawken for hunting. .50 cal is the most common. The Hawken rifle was originally developed by gunsmiths Samuel and Jacob Hawken in St. Louis, Missouri. They started their gunsmithing business around 1807 or so. They designed it to be able to handle heavier powder charges for the bigger western critters and to be easier to load on horseback than the eastern longrifles were. You should be able to get a good used one for $200-$400. Thompson/Center is probably the most common brand but CVA and Traditions make good ones too. When you find a Hawken that you like I would recommend that you find a local black powder club to help you learn to load, shoot, and clean it properly and safely. I probably should warn you (from personal experience) that black powder is very highly addictive, so you will likely have way too much fun! It can cause you to want to dress funny and primitive camp on occasion if you aren't careful!
I am in the central Virginia area and my black powder club shoots every third Saturday in Prince George Co., so if you are in the area sometime you are welcome to shoot with us. We are always glad to teach new shooters. Feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] for help and advice. I have been shooting black powder since 1982.
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  #27  
Old 06-08-2019, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster View Post
That's super helpful! I am feeling my way with this stuff. I had hoped to use black powder that I made last week in the rifle, but my texture was too fine. I'll try 70 grains of Pyrodex next time out. Cleanup was a breeze. I removed the barrel, stood it in a corner of the shower and poured a kettle of boiling water down the muzzle. Then a bronze brush, a couple of dry patches and some Remoil to coat the bore. I have a 20 lines-per-inch screen now to have another go at powder production. The first (finer) batch of BP will go in a Uberti 44 cal revolver.
A lot of us experienced black powder shooters use a mixture of equal parts 90 or 91% rubbing alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, and oil soap for cleaning. Over time, water can leave residual moisture in the bore which can promote rusting. Alcohol evaporates and reduces the residual moisture. Also remember to run oil or grease patches down the bore after drying.
More Hawken or "plains" type rifles are made in .50 and larger cal because they are better suited for hunting bigger critters like elk and bear. That was the advantage it had over the eastern longrifle, which was originally made in anywhere from about 28 to 45 cal. Smaller calibers and lighter powder charges actually do give better accuracy, although the 50 and larger cal rifles do give more versitility.
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  #28  
Old 06-09-2019, 01:44 AM
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Something you might find informative. A comparison of the 2.
Gabby

https://www.gun-tests.com/issues/18_...l#.XPylfP57mSk

If you are recoil sensitive the 45 is a little softer than the heavier loads, but you can adjust your powder charge to suit with any of them.

Last edited by Gabby-Bill; 06-09-2019 at 01:47 AM.
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