22 shorts - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-21-2016, 01:31 PM
22king's Avatar
22king
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2011
Location: 
idaho
Posts: 
665
TPC Rating: 
100% (71)
22 shorts



Log in to see fewer ads
Can I safely use 22 shorts in a 452 scout?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-21-2016, 02:43 PM
Magical's Avatar
Magical
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Aug 2003
Location: 
Chattanooga
Posts: 
1,240
TPC Rating: 
100% (11)
Call CZ

Best way to find out.

If you do I would think you would want to clean the chamber well before shooting anything longer.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-21-2016, 03:56 PM
painterpm
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2014
Location: 
Central NH
Posts: 
2,396
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
From the CZ-USA wbsite FAQ...

Q: ďIíve heard you use tight bores in your .22s, is that right? What does that mean?Ē

A: Our .22 LRs use our cold hammer forged and lapped barrels, and are built a bit tighter than many other guns. In .22 LR we run a .211 bore, which is one of the reasons our .22s are known for incredible accuracy. This also means that a .17 or .20 rod and jag are required for cleaning, since a .22 rod will be too large. Additionally, use of .22 Short, Long and Sub-Sonic ammunition isnít recommended because of the tight bore.


If you try it do as previously said, and clean the chamber well before switching to .22lr. Also, make sure you see a hole in the target before chambering the next round.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 09-21-2016, 10:17 PM
CJ_74

Join Date: 
Nov 2011
Posts: 
1,235
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
The safe answer is you aren't supposed to use a short in a rifle that isn't designed to accept them. Unless it says "Short" on the barrel along with .22 LR you are not shooting the right ammo. My 453 doesn't shoot shorts.

You could probably shoot some shorts in your rifle but I don't know why you would want to. In the old days you could get super quiet shorts. Now you can get super quiet LR's. Shorts actually cost more too. Unless someone left you a box I wouldn't buy any for your rifle. I personally wouldn't even shoot them if someone did give me some.

There are inexpensive rifles around that will shoot shorts. Find a used Stevens 15-B and have at it. I've seen them sell for $50. They usually sell for more now but they are generally inexpensive and they're fine rifles.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-22-2016, 01:12 AM
rico903
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Nov 2010
Location: 
MD
Posts: 
3,593
TPC Rating: 
95% (49)
Quote:
Originally Posted by painterpm View Post
From the CZ-USA wbsite FAQ...

Q: ďIíve heard you use tight bores in your .22s, is that right? What does that mean?Ē

A: Our .22 LRs use our cold hammer forged and lapped barrels, and are built a bit tighter than many other guns. In .22 LR we run a .211 bore, which is one of the reasons our .22s are known for incredible accuracy. This also means that a .17 or .20 rod and jag are required for cleaning, since a .22 rod will be too large. Additionally, use of .22 Short, Long and Sub-Sonic ammunition isnít recommended because of the tight bore.


If you try it do as previously said, and clean the chamber well before switching to .22lr. Also, make sure you see a hole in the target before chambering the next round.
Well, so much for putting Subs thru my TB American and my can
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-22-2016, 06:44 AM
painterpm
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2014
Location: 
Central NH
Posts: 
2,396
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rico903 View Post
Well, so much for putting Subs thru my TB American and my can
That, IMO, is lawyer speak. All SV ammunition is subsonic, and all .22lr match grade ammo is subsonic.

I think they're referring to 'quiet' and 'colibri' ammo that is in the 700fps range.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-22-2016, 10:24 AM
noremf's Avatar
noremf
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2011
Location: 
Alabama
Posts: 
9,834
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Late to the party

Quote:
Originally Posted by painterpm View Post
From the CZ-USA wbsite FAQ...

Q: “I’ve heard you use tight bores in your .22s, is that right? What does that mean?”

A: Our .22 LRs use our cold hammer forged and lapped barrels, and are built a bit tighter than many other guns. In .22 LR we run a .211 bore, which is one of the reasons our .22s are known for incredible accuracy. This also means that a .17 or .20 rod and jag are required for cleaning, since a .22 rod will be too large. Additionally, use of .22 Short, Long and Sub-Sonic ammunition isn’t recommended because of the tight bore.


If you try it do as previously said, and clean the chamber well before switching to .22lr. Also, make sure you see a hole in the target before chambering the next round.
Late to the party but the sentence on ammunition makes absolutely zero sense.

That would eliminate all target ammo and all non-target SV ammo! Does not meet the "common sense" test.

Soooooooo I called em.

Rep says that he understands that target ammo and all SV ammo such as CCI SV are subsonic and agrees the sentence is misleading.

"painterpm" was pretty close on the 700 fps MV but here is what the CZ rep said.

I also agree with "painterpm" that the phrasing is "lawyer" speak to limit liability.

"They" caution using any ammo with a MV of less then 1000 FPS based on published ammo MV's! Reason is that it is possible the bullet may not exit the barrel.

I posed some examples which I will not list here where you have ammo that is not .22 lr that has a MV greater then 1000 FPS and he said they could be used but accuracy would probably be not so good as they are normally reduced loads with bullet weights <30 grs which don't do well in a 1:16 twist.

If anyone wants to call em to confirm what I just posted feel free to do so.

noremf(George)

Last edited by noremf; 09-22-2016 at 10:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-22-2016, 12:39 PM
PKHansen

Join Date: 
Dec 2014
Location: 
Denmark
Posts: 
131
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
In my CZ455 .22 short and .22 Long are all over the place.
CCI quiets do very well though.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-22-2016, 02:04 PM
Spunk_Puppy
US Air Force NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2016
Location: 
Eastern Kansas
Posts: 
105
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by noremf View Post
Late to the party but the sentence on ammunition makes absolutely zero sense.

That would eliminate all target ammo and all non-target SV ammo! Does not meet the "common sense" test.

Soooooooo I called em.

Rep says that he understands that target ammo and all SV ammo such as CCI SV are subsonic and agrees the sentence is misleading.

"painterpm" was pretty close on the 700 fps MV but here is what the CZ rep said.

I also agree with "painterpm" that the phrasing is "lawyer" speak to limit liability.

"They" caution using any ammo with a MV of less then 1000 FPS based on published ammo MV's! Reason is that it is possible the bullet may not exit the barrel.

I posed some examples which I will not list here where you have ammo that is not .22 lr that has a MV greater then 1000 FPS and he said they could be used but accuracy would probably be not so good as they are normally reduced loads with bullet weights <30 grs which don't do well in a 1:16 twist.

If anyone wants to call em to confirm what I just posted feel free to do so.

noremf(George)
Thanks so much for this. I was confused by that original statement from them as well.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-23-2016, 01:21 AM
CJ_74

Join Date: 
Nov 2011
Posts: 
1,235
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Late to the party but the sentence on ammunition makes absolutely zero sense.
I couldn't figure that one out either. All .22 ammo is pretty much the same size and there is always some variation especially in cheap ammo. It makes more sense to think that a larger than spec bullet may not exit the bore if it's fired from a low power cartridge. But they didn't say it that way. They didn't say anything really except "don't do it".

I totally understand that a tight bore means a more accurate rifle but here's what gets me. The tightest bores around are on bench rest match grade rifles. And the barrels are tossed after a ridiculously low round count because they aren't as tight after a while. But those guys all use fairly low powered rounds. All of it is SV and of course as we all know not all .22 cartridges are created equal. A bigger than spec bullet and a lower than spec charge could spell trouble for those rifles. But that isn't something I've heard of happening. So without doubt that is lawyer speak for "don't blame us cause we warned you". just in case something does go wrong.

I'm heading off on a tangent here to point out something I've been saying for years that people often disagree with. A tighter bore is a more accurate bore. But a too tight bore is serious trouble. That's why the bench rest guys clean their rifles OFTEN. They can't tolerate a buildup of crud.

That brings us to the consumer grade rifles almost all of us are shooting (including our wonderful CZ's). Clearly they do have tighter bores because they shoot more accurate than most. And here's where the rub comes in. If you clean your bore more than needed you will have a bore that is slightly less tight. And that means slightly less accuracy. Consumer grade rifles aren't like bench rest purpose built rifles. The bore is bigger for lawyer reasons among other things. They feed much better too.

I have suggested not cleaning until accuracy starts to degrade for these very reasons. I also think a tighter bore explains why some rifles don't feed as well but they shoot more accurate. I have 2 examples of the same rifle. One shoots accurate and never fails to feed or eject unless I don't clean it for years. The other shoots considerably more accurate but it needs cleaning about every 400-500 rounds or else it won't feed (they are semi-auto rifles). The tight bore theory explains this. You get more accuracy but less reliability on feeding.

Anyway I just wanted to throw this stuff out there because it backs up what I've been saying a long time IMO. YMMV.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-23-2016, 11:39 AM
dmalcolm
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Aug 2015
Location: 
Alabama
Posts: 
398
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Just read this thread. Had me worried for a bit, as most of what I shoot is sub-sonic, but not the "quiets". Mostly I shoot CCI SV, Wolf/Eley/Lapua match loads which are all sub-sonic.
__________________
PilotCFII
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:11 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x