.20 WSM? .20 Hornet? - Page 2 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > > >

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 12-17-2019, 06:36 AM
Jammer22
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2017
Location: 
Nowhere good
Posts: 
1,193
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)


Log in to see fewer ads
Quote:
Originally Posted by rem33 View Post
Remington introduced a .20 rimfire in 1969, almost as fast as the 17 HMR with close to twice the weight bullet.
And it flopped...
__________________
"I am surrounded by fearful odds that will overcome me and my gallant men, but I am pleased to die fighting for my beloved country".
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-17-2019, 08:59 AM
AubMassCoyote

Join Date: 
Dec 2019
Posts: 
175
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfisherman View Post
... A 20 cal version in my mind would have put a bit more edge over the 17hmr... However if it is, would likely surpass the 17 wsm in use for most hunters.
What I was thinking. Since I don't have anything in the midrange, my options are open. This would be a bit bigger bullet, but slower, than the .17 WSM; and a bit smaller bullet, but more velocity than a .22 Mag.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fourbore View Post
... I agree if a person has a Hornet they dont much need a corresponding caliber rimfire magnum. BUT, many people dont have a Hornet and they dont want a Hornet. They are not you and for YOU your logic is good. For others a bigger WSM might be just the ticket. ....
I don't have any of those.



Quote:
Originally Posted by comfisherman View Post
... If They had gone to 20 cal, my guess is velocities would have been almost the same for a 5 grain increase in bullet weight. This would help the overall cartridge shine a bit more in the niche areas where it really shines.
My two uses for it are;
It's about max report for semi populated varmint hunting. I.e. on smaller farms in the areas I hunt I can sit in a field shooting squirrels and the report in the house is drowned out. The 22 hornet is just a bit louder and is still perceptible as is the 223. Downside of the 17wsm is wind drift on the rolling alfalfa. It gets it done better than the hmr but it's not as significant as I had hoped. Definitely an edge but a hard one to justify at double the cost per shot with much less variation in firearms. I do believe a 20 cal with a smidge bigger bullets would extend the wind drift advantage to a bit bigger margin. The other area is in the rim fire only area. Some states have rim fire restrictions for certain places or species. In my case a relative lives next to a rim fire only area with a serious coyote problem. The wsm clearly has more poop than both the mag and the, but a 20 would be a bit better even still.

20 cal would help differentiate this in my mind
.
Kind of what I was thinking.

Last edited by AubMassCoyote; 12-17-2019 at 11:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-18-2019, 12:37 AM
fiberoptik2313 is online now

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Posts: 
32
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer22 View Post
And it flopped...


It was ahead of its time. Far outperformed its competition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-18-2019, 10:36 PM
comfisherman's Avatar
comfisherman is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Nov 2004
Location: 
Somewhere in AK
Posts: 
1,660
TPC Rating: 
100% (6)
Send a message via AIM to comfisherman
I've no knowledge of the gun culture in 69, but my guess is it was harder to support boutique cartridges.

Looks at the 6.5 creedmore, it does squat that a 260 remington cannot do but it's still popular even in a saturated 6.5 market. Since its popularity we've continued to get the 26 nosler, the 6.5 gap, and now the 6.5x47 is coming back in vogue....

Something tells me the 5mm if released in a few modern rifles would be a decent hit. A cz couple rprs and a savage and off to the races we go..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-18-2019, 11:36 PM
fiberoptik2313 is online now

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Posts: 
32
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
.20 WSM? .20 Hornet?

I agree wholeheartedly. Those who have used it loved it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-19-2019, 12:33 AM
rem33
US Army NRA Member - Click Here To Join! GOA Member

Join Date: 
Jul 2006
Location: 
Idaho
Posts: 
578
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Myself and I am sure others would like to see guns made in 5MM Mag but it would need a good reliable ammo supply at 17HMR prices to succeed I would think.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-19-2019, 09:23 AM
AubMassCoyote

Join Date: 
Dec 2019
Posts: 
175
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rem33 View Post
Myself and I am sure others would like to see guns made in 5MM Mag but it would need a good reliable ammo supply at 17HMR prices to succeed I would think.




https://www.aguilaammo.com/rimfire/#Specialtab

Last edited by AubMassCoyote; 12-19-2019 at 09:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-19-2019, 03:38 PM
rem33
US Army NRA Member - Click Here To Join! GOA Member

Join Date: 
Jul 2006
Location: 
Idaho
Posts: 
578
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Yes, I know Aguila was making 5MM mag now but did you price it anywhere?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-19-2019, 10:49 PM
JGR_LV
Law Enforcement Officer NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Sep 2006
Location: 
Las Vegas
Posts: 
216
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
5mm Remington magnum

[QUOTE=fiberoptik2313;11705915]5mm Remington Magnum. Came in 591–clip fed; 592–tube fed, & TC Contender. [QUOTE]

For decades this ammunition was solid unobtainium. i gather Remington held the patent and wouldn't license or give it up for any reasonable sum. The Remington-box stuff was a collector item and too expensive (between $1 and $2 per round) to shoot, if it could be found at all. After the patent expired, Centurion started making it for around $15 per 50-round box and people started shooting it again. Must not have been a big seller, though, because it looks like Centurion has dropped it. Aguila is selling it at between $25 and $30 per box, but that seems to be a bit scarce now, too. I suspect they make limited runs of it once a year.
Before the Centurion ammo became available, there was a company, looked like a 1 or 2-man show, in Washington state that made kits to convert the Remington rifle bolts (very nice little rifles, BTW) to centerfire, plus sold custom-made brass and reloading dies for a wildcat 5mm centerfire cartridge that fit the chambers. They also had directions for forming the brass out of some other cartridge, perhaps 22 Hornet. I have a Contender with a 5mm Rem barrel and considered buying the die set and some brass for that, but was still thinking about it when the Centurion ammo showed up. Also considered having that barrel rechambered for .204 Ruger, but that's another story.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-20-2019, 02:49 PM
Glass37
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Mar 2011
Location: 
Southern lower MI
Posts: 
1,336
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
[QUOTE=JGR_LV;11709373][QUOTE=fiberoptik2313;11705915]5mm Remington Magnum. Came in 591–clip fed; 592–tube fed, & TC Contender.
Quote:

For decades this ammunition was solid unobtainium. i gather Remington held the patent and wouldn't license or give it up for any reasonable sum. The Remington-box stuff was a collector item and too expensive (between $1 and $2 per round) to shoot, if it could be found at all. After the patent expired, Centurion started making it for around $15 per 50-round box and people started shooting it again. Must not have been a big seller, though, because it looks like Centurion has dropped it. Aguila is selling it at between $25 and $30 per box, but that seems to be a bit scarce now, too. I suspect they make limited runs of it once a year.
Before the Centurion ammo became available, there was a company, looked like a 1 or 2-man show, in Washington state that made kits to convert the Remington rifle bolts (very nice little rifles, BTW) to centerfire, plus sold custom-made brass and reloading dies for a wildcat 5mm centerfire cartridge that fit the chambers. They also had directions for forming the brass out of some other cartridge, perhaps 22 Hornet. I have a Contender with a 5mm Rem barrel and considered buying the die set and some brass for that, but was still thinking about it when the Centurion ammo showed up. Also considered having that barrel rechambered for .204 Ruger, but that's another story.
Ammoseek has 50+ listings of sellers of 5mm rimfire. The Centurion ammo was made by Aguila also.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-21-2019, 01:30 AM
Signalman's Avatar
Signalman is online now

Moderator
Join Date: 
Jan 2012
Location: 
On the Westside
Posts: 
12,095
TPC Rating: 
100% (13)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnyork View Post
I have two .22 Hornets and shoot them quite a bit, have not had any complaints from the prairie dogs. Why would I need something else? I also have a .222 Remington that starts off where the Hornets quit.
I have 2x 22 Hornets and 3x 222s to play with and I am completely happy with the one 22 Hornet I shoot now...it is everything I wanted in a rifle: light weight, very accurate, nice and quite compared to my 223 that wakes the dead so my 223 does not get used.

I would not mind a different caliber if it was just as good as my 22 Hornet...only problem is like the 5mm that came and went...where the 22 HH has been here for years and still has a good following. But what do I know...when the 40 S&W first came out to replace the 10mm...I thought it was just a flash in the pan. The 40S&W is one of the most popular CF pistol round after the 9mm.

I would love to see a 22 super mag but if the accuracy is like the 17WSM when it first came out....no thank you...if it is loaded like it should (from Hornady and CCI) and the price was right and in a CZ FS rifle sign me up.

Signalman
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-21-2019, 10:30 AM
AubMassCoyote

Join Date: 
Dec 2019
Posts: 
175
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
.40 S&W? You're kidding, right. I think the 5mm is more popular, at least around here.

Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-21-2019, 02:17 PM
prairie maggot
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2012
Location: 
Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 
268
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I am sure that "rimfire" only hunting areas are a unique and limited argument as it impacts a relative few number of hunters. For them something bigger and faster and badder would of course be better. The number of rounds of ammunition you shoot in those limited hunting scenarios would be fairly small. Contrast that with the volume of ammo shot just "plinking" with a 22lr. Even my 17hmr is not a high volume shooter unless I am out shooting ground squirrels or prairie dogs. And then, the annual volume differential of 22lr vs. 17hmr is huge. There is a demand problem for manufacturers of magnum rimfire calibers. BTW, it is the same demand problem that has resulted in the near absence of 22long and 22short cartridges.

Another big problem is that many of those who might use the magnum rimfire cartridges - especially the 17wsm - are very serious about accuracy. And, magnum rimfire loads are notoriously "sport" quality, not "match" quality. Once you bump up to a rimfire load going 3,000+ feet per second in 17 caliber with so-so accuracy, you may just as well go up to a centerfire 17 hornet where you can manage all of the components to give you on the average, much better accuracy for a given rifle than you will achieve with the non-match loads of the rimfire magnum cartridges. You can load the velocity down to the rimfire range, or add an extra 500+ FPS velocity to give you more range, killing power, and explosive hits. With a 17 hornet I saw no practical need for me to get a 17wsm. If you want to, you can customize the hornet into 17, 20 or 22 or even bigger caliber.

The magnum rimfire calibers all look fun and interesting, but in the end, the demand just isn't there and you can compensate by limiting range or by custom loading one of the small centerfire cartridges like the 17 hornet, and even the 22tcm. Unfortunately, this does not help the rimfire only hunters looking for a little more oomph. Burt
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-21-2019, 05:28 PM
AubMassCoyote

Join Date: 
Dec 2019
Posts: 
175
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prairie maggot View Post
... With a 17 hornet I saw no practical need for me to get a 17wsm. If you want to, you can customize the hornet into 17, 20 or 22 or even bigger caliber.

... in the end, the demand just isn't there and you can compensate by limiting range or by custom loading one of the small centerfire cartridges like the 17 hornet, and even the 22tcm. ...
You see no need, but not everybody already has that .17 Hornet which you have.

What is a .20 based on the Hornet line?

I would say the demand is there. A lot of people have the HMR, and are now looking at the WSM or the Hornet, or even the Fireball, and trying to decide. Some (like me), don't even have the HMR, so they have a wide open field of choices.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-21-2019, 06:09 PM
B23 is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2008
Location: 
PNW
Posts: 
1,509
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I think prairie maggot, for the most part, pretty well nailed it.

For me, where the 17 WSM fills a void is high volume ground squirrel shooting where you can easily shoot 300-500 rounds a day for multiple days and at ranges from 10-350 yards. The 17 Hornet will certainly do that also, but at a much higher expense or a buttload of time spent at the reloading bench.

The 17 Hornet is definitely a much more precision instrument than any of the .17 rimfires but like most things, it comes at a cost.

I love the little 17 Hornets, probably why I have two of them, but I also really like my 17 WSM as well. Since getting my 17 WSM, I hardly ever shoot either of my 17 HMR's.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x