IZH 7-4 takes 3rd ... Rimfire Tactical Precision Match & Tactical Biathlon BI-7-4 - Page 3 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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  #31  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:28 AM
PixelPaul

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World Cup races can and have been won with the Izhmash rifles, most likely with non-factory barrels. The biggest difference is cold weather shooting. The accuracy of the Izhmash starts to deteriorate around 5 degrees. This does not happen with the Anschutz. Overall the fit and finish of the Anschutz is clearly nicer than the Izhmash, which has a real "military surplus" feel to it (in my opinion). The fortner action is a bit faster and smoother than the Izhmash action, although with some fine-tuning the Izhmash can become quite smooth itself. In my mind there is no question the Anschutz is the better rifle, which it should be considering it costs almost twice as much.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ERdept View Post
Fit and finish are noticibly different, but how do they shoot side to side? Are they equally accurate or is one clearly superior? Besides finish, how are the acitons smoothness to each other?
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  #32  
Old 01-08-2009, 09:29 AM
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Biathlon Slings

Quote:
Originally Posted by PixelPaul View Post
In biathlon events the sling is not used during standing shooting. It is legal to do so, but nobody does it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biathlonboy View Post
... the sling is only used i prone shooting...
when your breathing hard and your heart rate is up,
the sling doesn't help your offhand shooting enough to be worth using.
PixelPaul & Biathlonboy, I don't doubt or question what you'll are saying.
From what I gather, both of you have direct experience in biathlon competition.
I'm just surprised - this is an unexpected revelation.

I'm surprised ... because, in my advanced marksmanship training in the military (not biathlon).
I was instructed, "If you have a sling, use it ... use it to your advantage."
I learned how to employ a rifle sling to enhance shooting accuracy.
I've never forgotten.
As such, given the opportunity I will use a sling.
For example, while performing "picket duty" for TDCJ, I insist on being issued a rifle with a mounted sling.
When I arrive "on post" I carefully readjust the sling for shooting - not carry.


Take a look at this firing line.
I think I can make-out two shooters (position 21-20 & 26-25) employing the biathlon sling.
And, one ... maybe one, judging by sling tension, using an arm cuff.
But, it is hard to tell for certain.
Double Click for Larger Image
Reference:
7-4 Sling (not harness - the sling): BI Arm Sling with Firing Cuff & Shoulder Sling
How Stuff Works: Biathlon Photo Gallery
Joint Use of Slings
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 01-08-2009 at 11:31 AM. Reason: Add Link(s)
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  #33  
Old 01-08-2009, 09:49 AM
PixelPaul

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I think what you are seeing is actually the bungee cord from the carrying harness and not a locked in sling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post

Take a look at this firing line.
I think I can make-out two shooters (position 21-20 & 26-25) employing the biathlon sling.
And, one ... maybe one, judging by sling tension, using an arm cuff.
But, it is hard to tell for certain.
Double Click for Larger Image
Reference: 7-4 Sling (not harness - the sling): BI Arm Sling with Firing Cuff & Shoulder Sling
How Stuff Works: Biathlon Photo Gallery
Joint Use of Slings
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  #34  
Old 01-08-2009, 10:03 AM
raw bits

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If you got it use it ... It depends on the match/ rules.

Your right, if you got it use it. It depends on the match/ rules.

I shot silhouette for a while and you can't use a sling or glove and
even upper body clothing is limited.

Our rules are, any 22LR. you can use slings, bipods, scopes, but no rear bag.
If the stage calls for kneeling you kneel, we sit, offhand, prone.

We have shot out of moving trailer at steel and the position is up to you.
Same with shooting out of a honey pot, you can sit (lol) or stand.

Everything is explained as far as position and time just before the stage.
This match was originally design to complement CF tactical matches, a way
to shoot cheaper and still have a great time.

The guns seem to not matter as much, because Henry (the guy that got first) shot a savage
with average scope and beat me by 100 pts. Good shootin Henry! aka buffybuster.
You need to know your dope and read the wind, everything else is extra.

We have noticed a little bit of an arms race taking place.
Suddenly new barrels are appearing, trigger work and such.

I'm sticking with what I got, it shoots great, why screw with it anymore than I have.
I was going to recrown it but found out it was me not the gun.

Last edited by raw bits; 01-08-2009 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Modified Post for Clarity
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  #35  
Old 01-08-2009, 10:18 AM
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Maybe I'm Reading More Into What I'm Seeing

Quote:
Originally Posted by PixelPaul View Post
I think what you are seeing is actually the bungee cord from the carrying harness and not a locked in sling.
The shooter has tucked the bungee cord under his arm.
I presume to get it out-of-the-way.

It sure looks like the tucked bungee cord has the sling is under, some, steadying tension.
Judging from the lack of tension on the corresponding sling strap.

Look at the shooter at position 24-23 (black straps).
He may have the bungee cord tucked under his arm as well.

Then look at the shooter at position 22-21 ... no tuck, no tension.

Or, maybe, I'm reading more into what I'm seeing.

Could be ... but, it looks like a quick, improvised sling hold to me
from the prespective of a dedicated sling user.
Any sling tension, however slight it maybe, will exert a stablizing effect.

I guess, to each shooter ... his own.
Either way, interesting observations and comments from the experianced biathlon shooters.

Hmmm, I wonder if Kevin6q uses a sling hold while shooting off-hand?
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 01-09-2009 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Add Text & Smilies
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  #36  
Old 01-08-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERdept View Post
I want to participate. How, when, where do I start. I have the 7-4 rifle with Burris scope.

Please PM me.
raw bits
Could you field this question?

ERdept,
Right now RimFire Tactical Precision Match competition is limited to SoCal.

Hopefully with exposure, like we're doing here, a stimulus for local matches will happen.
Talk with some local shooters in your area and see about staging an impromptu match.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 01-08-2009 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Modify Text
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  #37  
Old 01-08-2009, 11:29 AM
raw bits

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Yeah, I pm ERdept with pretty much the same info that's at the start of this thread.
I'm assuming he is located in Bellflower, Ca.
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  #38  
Old 01-08-2009, 11:54 AM
ERdept
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Got the PM. Now I want to train at the range!

I'll see you there next time.
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  #39  
Old 01-08-2009, 12:01 PM
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Digital Camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERdept View Post
Got the PM. Now I want to train at the range!

I'll see you there next time.
And, take your digital camera with you - please.
More pictures ... more interest ... more forum participation - aom22.

One more thing, photo document your rifle set-up and shooting positions
so we can all share in your experiance.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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  #40  
Old 01-08-2009, 04:35 PM
raw bits

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AOM22, here is a link to a fellow shooters photobucket (teletiger7) who is a great
shot and gives us a run for our bullet.
This shows the trailer video. It's harder than you think...

http://s224.photobucket.com/albums/d...entyTwoMatch2/
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  #41  
Old 01-08-2009, 06:39 PM
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Link Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by raw bits View Post
AOM22, here is a link to a fellow shooters photobucket (teletiger7) who is a great
shot and gives us a run for our bullet.
This shows the trailer video. It's harder than you think...

http://s224.photobucket.com/albums/d...entyTwoMatch2/
This earlier post listed a link that would take you to the same place.
Photo Link: Rimfire Tractical Precision
Thanks for the update.
I haven't posted the video ... maybe I should.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 01-08-2009 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Add Links and Text
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  #42  
Old 01-08-2009, 10:05 PM
ERdept
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
And, take your digital camera with you - please.
More pictures ... more interest ... more forum participation - aom22.

One more thing, photo document your rifle set-up and shooting positions
so we can all share in your experiance.

I'll bring the camera fer sure. I got the dates set on my calendar.
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  #43  
Old 01-09-2009, 09:08 AM
raw bits

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Shooting Buddy

Hey ERdept.
A buddy of mine (speed647) is going to meet up with me at APS Saturday am.
You should come up and shoot with us.

Speed647's Rifle
My 10/22 - "Spitfire"

Speed647 Shooting
shooter with a 10/22

Last edited by aom22; 01-09-2009 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Add Link
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  #44  
Old 01-09-2009, 08:48 PM
Biathlonboy

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
PixelPaul & Biathlonboy, I don't doubt or question what you'll are saying.
From what I gather, both of you have direct experience in biathlon competition.
I'm just surprised - this is an unexpected revelation.

I'm surprised ... because, in my advanced marksmanship training in the military (not biathlon).
I was instructed, "If you have a sling, use it ... use it to your advantage."
I learned how to employ a rifle sling to enhance shooting accuracy.
I've never forgotten.
As such, given the opportunity I will use a sling.
For example, while performing "picket duty" for TDCJ, I insist on being issued a rifle with a mounted sling.
When I arrive "on post" I carefully readjust the sling for shooting - not carry.


Take a look at this firing line.
I think I can make-out two shooters (position 21-20 & 26-25) employing the biathlon sling.
And, one ... maybe one, judging by sling tension, using an arm cuff.
But, it is hard to tell for certain.
Double Click for Larger Image
Reference:
7-4 Sling (not harness - the sling): BI Arm Sling with Firing Cuff & Shoulder Sling
How Stuff Works: Biathlon Photo Gallery
Joint Use of Slings
aom22:

The slings used in biathlon are a fixed length strap that hooks to an arm cuff.
I have never seen a top level biathlete using a sling for offhand as long as i have been competing.

This would be my explanation: To get the benefit of the sling it would have to be adjusted to a different length for the prone and standing positions (i just tried hooking my sling, which is set for prone, up in the offhand position, and it kinda pulled me into a weird position...)

Because time is also a factor in biathlon (When i first started racing i lost places to people in the shooting range... even when we both hit the same number of targets, just becuase they got in and out of position faster than i did.) It would not make sense to change your sling length during a race.

My guess is that sometime a while back someone found that when breathing hard with your heart pounding, the sling helped the most in the prone position, so now we set our slings for prone....

that's my theory.... i'll ask my shooting coach next time i get the chance...
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  #45  
Old 01-12-2009, 09:16 AM
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aom22
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Biathlon Sling ... More to Come

Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
... Hmmm, I wonder if Kevin6q uses a sling hold while shooting off-hand?
Just got an email from Kevin6q ...
Quote:
Hi Alex,
I can post something about the sling and offhand shooting.
No one uses them and I have a few theories as to why.

I'm a bit busy for the next few days trying to meet a few deadlines
so I'll dig into this when I'm caught up.
Take care, Kevin
More to come ... theories.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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