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Old 10-07-2010, 09:44 PM
Milhous Jr

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New Wildcat--and some questions.



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Hey all- This is my first post despite lurking RFC off and on for a few years, so go easy. Well anyway, I was poking around one of my local gunstores a while back while looking for a bolt action .22, and happened to stumble upon something I'd never seen before- a Winchester Wildcat Target. I came home, did a little research, and came to the conclusion that I'd definitely buy this guy. It was apparently just as accurate as the Savage MkII I was also looking at, and Priced about 40 bucks cheaper. A pic of my new toy (please excuse that I've chopped off the barrel in this pic):


After cleaning the oil/cosmolene/whatever that was off the gun and out of the barrel, I decided to load a magazine and work the action for kicks (yes I know this was probably not the best idea indoors, at home). This is where my question lies: It seemed to be somewhat difficult to chamber a round all the way. This was the case regardless of ammo used; Fed bulk pack, CCI Mini-Mags, CCI Subsonic, Blazer black box all felt the same way. I know these guns are supposed to have tight chambers, but is this normal?

Second, upon examining the rounds after extraction, the driving band seemed to have noticeable markings from the rifling. Is this normal? I've never noticed that my other 22's do this (Buckmark, 10/22) Here's a blurry pic:


Thanks in advance for any help or advice.
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Old 10-08-2010, 06:21 AM
RET
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I do not own a Wildcat but

a few observations. The two guns you mentioned are both semi-auto.

1. Semi-auto generally have the looser chambers than bolt action.
2. Marking on the bullet tell you that your rifling engages the bullet upon chambering. Accuracy wise, that is generally a good thing.

Unless there is a reason otherwise, what you are seeing would be desirable in an accurate bolt .22 rifle.

ret
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:29 AM
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Since what you have is actually a TOZ you should check out https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=342529

Last edited by Charlotte; 10-08-2010 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:25 AM
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Match Chamber versus Standard Chamber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhous Jr View Post
This is where my question lies:
It seemed to be somewhat difficult to chamber a round all the way.
I know these guns are supposed to have tight chambers,
but is this normal?
No, it is not normal for a typical off-the-shelf American rimfire.
But, it is an indication of a match chamber.
Match chambers have tighter/closer dimensions than a standard chamber.
A standard chamber has looser tolerances to ensure reliable functioning
in adverse conditions and/or with all brands of ammunition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhous Jr View Post
Second, upon examining the rounds after extraction,
the driving band seemed to have noticeable markings from the rifling.
Is this normal?
Match chambers in rimfire applications do allow the bolt to drive the bullet
to engage the rifling.
The combination of tight chamber and engaged rifling makes
for extracting a non-fired round difficult.

In some cases, a match chamber can be so tight and the rifling engaged
so well that an attempt to remove the unfired round will cause the extractor
to slip-off the case rim.
Repeatedly cycling the bolt will end the same way.
The net result ... the unfired round is stuck in the chamber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RET View Post
2. Marking on the bullet tell you that your rifling engages the bullet upon chambering.
Accuracy wise, that is generally a good thing....
But take heart, as RET has stated the combination of a tight chamber
and engaged rifling will serve to enhance accuracy.

Here's another simple experiment to try.
Take a spent case for one of your American guns.
And, manually try to chamber the fired case into the Wildcat chamber.
Do not drive the spent case with the bolt ... use your fingertips.
I think you will find that the case will not enter the Wildcat chamber.

Why? The spent case will have expanded to the dimensions
of the chamber it was fired in.
It will have expanded so much, it may not be possible to enter
a match chamber without significant mechanical advantage.
That is, being driven and cammed-in by the rifle bolt.

This simple experiment will help you distinguish a standard chamber
from a match chamber in the field.
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:36 AM
Milhous Jr

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Thanks for the advice and links everybody. You guys confirmed my suspicions, good to know I was on on the right track with regards to the chamber dimensions. Now to get myself a scope and hit the range!
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:56 AM
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Posting Photos: Targets, Close-Ups of Rifle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhous Jr View Post
Now to get myself a scope and hit the range!
How about posting the results of you accuracy testing and photos of your targets.
Moreover, detailed photos of your rifle while you cleaning and/or stripping
your rifle for maintenance would be nice.

By the way, the Winchester Forum also has some information on the Winchester Wildcat models.
Don't forget ... the Search Function is your friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
Search: Keyword(s): CM2, Anschutz ; Posts Made By: Charlotte ; Forum: Russian Rimfires & Biathlon
Good luck with your Russian/American purchase and keep us abreast of your Winchester/TOZ experience.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:04 AM
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More Winchester Wildcat Information to Check-Out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte View Post

Since what you have is actually a TOZ
you should check out https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=342529
More stuff to check-out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:54 AM
Milhous Jr

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Wow, thanks for all the links! I've read a few of them before, but I guess I've got my reading cut out for me this weekend.

Edit- I'll post some more pics of the action our of the stock and taken down for cleaning, when I get home from work tonight. (tomorrow at the latest)

Last edited by Milhous Jr; 10-08-2010 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
Here's another simple experiment to try.
Take a spent case for one of your American guns.
And, manually try to chamber the fired case into the Wildcat chamber.
Do not drive the spent case with the bolt ... use your fingertips.
I think you will find that the case will not enter the Wildcat chamber.

Why? The spent case will have expanded to the dimensions
of the chamber it was fired in.
It will have expanded so much, it may not be possible to enter
a match chamber without significant mechanical advantage.
That is, being driven and cammed-in by the rifle bolt.

This simple experiment will help you distinguish a standard chamber
from a match chamber in the field.
I'm not so sure about that, aom22. I manually insert a fired case into the chamber of my TOZ-78 every time I adjust the trigger, to absorb the blow of the FP when dry-firing.

To the OP: As others have said, tight chambers and rifling marks on the driving bands of chambered rounds are a good thing!
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Old 11-05-2010, 06:28 PM
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Match Chamber ... Spent Case from Non-Match Chamber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looter View Post
I'm not so sure about that, aom22.
I manually insert a fired case into the chamber of my TOZ-78 every time I adjust the trigger,
to absorb the blow of the FP when dry-firing.
Hmmmm ... one caveat to my original statement.
The fired case should be from a rimfire other than your TOZ
that does not have a match chamber.

I've manually tried this several times with My Larsen Recruit Rifle.
And, I wasn't successful in any of my efforts.

However, I was able to cam-in a spent case using bolt leverage.
When I did this, the spent case became stuck.
I had to drive the stuck case out using a cleaning rod.
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