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  #1  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:15 PM
Nerostarr
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What's the better rifle



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Can someone please explain the differences between these rifles and which is a better buy and more accurate.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/60278

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/38177

Also how do they relate to a TOZ-78? I'm not up to speed on these russian rifles, but would like to purchase one.
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  #2  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:39 PM
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Zastava Arms Small-bore Rifle MP Precision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerostarr View Post
The USSG Z5 is the Zastava Arms (Serbia) SMALL-BORE RIFLE MP PRECISION rifle.

Formerly imported by Charles Daly as the Superior II .
And, later by Remington as the Model 5.
Considering that Remington and Charles Daly both saw fit to include this Serbian rimfire
in their inventory should speak volumes of the worthiness of the little rifle.

Reference Links:
Charles Daly "Zastava" 22 LR
ugly Rem. Mod. 5/Charles Daly stocks? - Rimfire Shooting
Zastava CZ 99 Precision
CZ 99 Precision - Looking for Info
Model 5 / Z5 / USSG (EAA) / Zastavia | COW 54
where there TWO different stocks for the Remington Model Five??? | hornet_rn

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Last edited by aom22; 07-12-2010 at 07:11 PM. Reason: Add Text for Clarity
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  #3  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:48 PM
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Winchester Wildcat ... TOZ 78

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerostarr View Post
The Winchester Wildcat is an Americanized version of the TOZ 78.
Likewise, for Winchester to include the TOZ 78 (Wildcat guise) in their line-up also bodes well for TOZ rimfires.
However, be advised ... the Wildcat version besides being styled differently,
also deviates internally with a lawyer proof trigger.
For scope mounting, the Wildcat is an improvement over the TOZ 78.
The imported Winchester is outfitted with a folding rear notch teamed-up with a standard bead-post front sight.

Reference Links:
TOZ-78-17 - a model specially adapted for the North American market
TOZ 78 - Tula, Winchester Wildcat 22 (aka TOZ 78-12), Optical Sights, USA Peep Sights
TOZ-78-12 (Winchester) and TOZ-78-17 (North American market)
2006 JSC "Tulsky Oruzheiny Zavod"
Winchester Wildcat magazines - Winchester Customer Svc & Wildcat Stock Finish & Fit

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W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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  #4  
Old 07-12-2010, 06:26 PM
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What to Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerostarr View Post
... Also how do they relate to a TOZ-78?
I'm not up to speed on these russian rifles,
but would like to purchase one.
Picking one rifle over another would be hard to do.
As for which one is better ... would be even more so.
There are too many subjective elements to consider.
However, here are some things to keep in-mind:
The Wildcat is nolonger cataloged by Winchester.
The TOZ 78 is not being currently imported - subject to change at anytime.
Magazines and spare parts for these RU bolt-action rimfires maybe hard to find.
But, the Zastava Arms rimfire has dealer support directly through USSG.
As such, spare parts, magazines and service are readily available.
Nerostarr ... go with what appeals to you the most.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of these rimfire rifles.

By the way, have you looked into a Biathlon Basic?
And, if you have deeper pockets ... look at timberbeasts Legion Sobol carbine.
Legion Sobol for sale in RFC classified ... timberbeast63
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W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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  #5  
Old 07-12-2010, 07:04 PM
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Interesting difference in size. The USSG is larger in both weight and overall length (7lbs. as opposed to 4 1/2 lbs.) and (40 3/4 in. as opposed to 38 3/8 in.) even though the wildcat has a longer barrel. From the pic, the USSG appears to be laminate (which would account for some of the weight difference) but the speck says it's walnut. I would verify the weight and length of both. Many companies tend to generalize in the weight catagory. Or Buds could just have it wrong.

If you decide on the G5, I would love to see pics and get your general take on it. Actually I would love to see pics and get your take on either! Good luck.
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  #6  
Old 07-12-2010, 07:23 PM
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Compact M5/Z5

Quote:
Originally Posted by hectus22 View Post
... The USSG is larger in both weight and overall length (7lbs. as opposed to 4 1/2 lbs.)
and (40 3/4 in. as opposed to 38 3/8 in.) ....
There is a compact version of the Zastava rimfire.

Model Five™ Compact
Quote:
Barrel Length 16", Overall Length 35 1/4"
MODEL: Z5 BOLT ACTION RIFLE BY ZASTAVA
Quote:
SKU 489916, CAL 22LR, OAL 35.25”, BBL 16”,
DESCRIPTION ZAS BOLT RI 22LR YTH Z5 BL WL 5RDS&1RDS
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  #7  
Old 07-13-2010, 06:03 AM
Nerostarr
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AOM and Hectus, thank you for the replies and the wealth of information you posted. I've been researching these rifles for sometime now and have held off buying as I own several CZ's, I think i'm ready for and want something a bit different than what i'm currently shooting and with open sights. I'm leaning towards the 16" barrel models, in the Z5 or the model 5. Now that you guys have helped me understand them a bit better and narrow my selection down, it should be much easier to make a decision. None of my LGS carry either of these models which make it a bit tuffer to make a decision. I'd like to be able to hold and feel the bolts and triggers of both models and the weight/balance of each model. I'lI let you know what I decide on and thanks again for all your help, your replies are much appreciated.
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  #8  
Old 07-13-2010, 06:32 AM
j.r. guerra in s. texas

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One of those Serb gun companies sells (or sold) a shortened .22 Magnum full stock Mannlicher stocked gun that looked really nice to me, might have been the Zastava, but not sure. Just has very fine lines to me.

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  #9  
Old 07-13-2010, 08:16 AM
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Something Different: EAA Sobol ... Legion Sobol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerostarr View Post
... I think i'm ready for and want something a bit different
than what i'm currently shooting and with open sights....
Take a look at a standard Sobol.
Or, as for something really different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
The Legion is competitively priced, unique and more (much more) exclusive.
Moreover, what is the likelihood of ... ever ... encountering a Legion Sobol?
A very, very small chance - indeed....



Sobol: Sable - (Соболь)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerostarr View Post
... I'd like to be able to hold and feel the bolts and triggers
of both models and the weight/balance of each model....
All of the Biathlon Series have excellent two-stage triggers.
The Sobol models are well-balanced for an adult.
However, the Sobol's are not small rifles.

Reference Link: Legion Sobol VS Izhmash Sobol: Accuracy Claim
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you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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  #10  
Old 07-13-2010, 08:39 AM
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Mannlicher Rimfire by Zastava Arms

Quote:
Originally Posted by j.r. guerra in s. texas View Post
... Serb gun companies ... sells a shortened .22 Magnum full stock Mannlicher stocked gun ... might have been the Zastava...

Zastava Arms ... Yes.
But, too bad for us .... USSG is not importing the Mannlicher rimfire version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
How about this?

Zastava Arms produces a Mannlicher styled rimfire as well.
Once again, no word if USSGI will be importing any Mannlicher models in the near future.


ZASTAVA MP22 R MANNLICHER


I think it is good to have a rimfire companion to any centerfire I own.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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