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Old 08-26-2018, 12:12 PM
Triggershoe
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ARA Target Scoring



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Hi all-- I am a bit unsure about the proper technique to score the ARA target, and I still consider myself a ARA rookie. I assume it is the edge of the bullet hole furthest (OUTER edge) from the center that is used to determine score? For example, the "50" point "determiner"-- if one looks at the example for scoring illustrated on the ARA target, it's pretty clear in the 1st "50" point example that the shot is indeed a "50". But let's talk about the 2nd "50" hole furthest from the center--- it looks like the inner edge of the hole is JUST even with the inside edge of the bolder center ring, and the outside edge of the hole is just even with the edge of the lighter "middle" scoring ring. I hope you are with me so far... So, what if the outside edge of the bullet hole breaks into (touches) that lighter middle ring, but yet the inside edge is still well into (not clear) of that bolder center ring? Is that shot scored as a "50" or as a "25"?? I hope this makes sense what I'm asking. If there is anyone that cares to post some actual "shot" targets that have been scored I would like to look at them.
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Old 08-26-2018, 01:53 PM
ArtS
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The edge of the bullet is the only thing considered. There is no inner or outer edge considered. ARA is worst edge scoring. The edge only determines the score, and it is always the worst score touched by the bullet hole at any point.
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Old 08-26-2018, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggershoe View Post
Hi all-- I am a bit unsure about the proper technique to score the ARA target, and I still consider myself a ARA rookie. I assume it is the edge of the bullet hole furthest (OUTER edge) from the center that is used to determine score? For example, the "50" point "determiner"-- if one looks at the example for scoring illustrated on the ARA target, it's pretty clear in the 1st "50" point example that the shot is indeed a "50". But let's talk about the 2nd "50" hole furthest from the center--- it looks like the inner edge of the hole is JUST even with the inside edge of the bolder center ring, and the outside edge of the hole is just even with the edge of the lighter "middle" scoring ring. I hope you are with me so far... So, what if the outside edge of the bullet hole breaks into (touches) that lighter middle ring, but yet the inside edge is still well into (not clear) of that bolder center ring? Is that shot scored as a "50" or as a "25"?? I hope this makes sense what I'm asking. If there is anyone that cares to post some actual "shot" targets that have been scored I would like to look at them.
http://archive.americanrimfire.com/n...l_standard.htm

See page 10 http://www.americanrimfire.com/media...2011-Rules.pdf
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Old 08-26-2018, 06:54 PM
Triggershoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtS View Post
The edge of the bullet is the only thing considered. There is no inner or outer edge considered. ARA is worst edge scoring. The edge only determines the score, and it is always the worst score touched by the bullet hole at any point.
ArtS and USMCDOC--- thanks very much for that info. I believe I have it right now as to the proper method. It's just that there seems to be some "variability" in the methods used from club-to-club. However-- and this is what's really important I think-- as long as the SAME technique and SAME scorer is used for all competitors at a given match, then all is well and we have an even playing field regardless. The only thing is that one or the other occurs--- the scores are either brutally honest (good, I want that!), or the scores are unintentionally "inflated" just a bit. Again, as long as all competitors at a given match are treated the same relative to scoring technique, there is little harm done. I recently shot a match using a AR-22 semi-auto that I put together, and my score was listed as a 1750. Not too bad for this type of rifle. But, after reading your posts and taking another look at the target, I think the honest score is 1700. This is wholly due to two shots scored as 50's when they in fact they should have been 25's if scored "properly", and was in fact the reason for my original query. Still feeling pretty good though, about an honest 1700 for this type of platform (AR-22) and fed through the magazine. I have shot higher scores during practice sessions with this "range toy", just can't seem to be able to do it when the chips are down. Match pressure??
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Old 08-26-2018, 07:24 PM
USMCDOC
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Glad that you have it worked out..
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  #6  
Old 08-27-2018, 06:59 AM
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So what should this have been scored as by the computer
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Old 08-27-2018, 07:28 AM
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My best guess the computer would score that shot 100P. It's close, the plugging might go either way. An example of how hard ARA really is. John
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Old 08-27-2018, 07:55 AM
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Well, you were close John.Guess my point is it is really hard to get a 100 in the ARA,scoring by computer has it's advantages but sometimes even a computer can make a mistake.That pic above scored a 50,period,no P,these other 2 scored 100'sP and resulted in 100 scores.This should show beginners in our ARA match's that scores should always be examined closely and if you feel it need to be plugged do so.Mine was and was told it was 50 and I accepted that and moved on,others may see something different,Just sayin
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Old 08-27-2018, 09:39 AM
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Physical factors come into play, bullet rotation, arc of the bullet dropping at impact, and bullet shape. Notice one side of the hole is a clean cut while the other side is a ragged tear. You want that tear always positioned to the inside towards the dot, why misses high always score better than misses low. John
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Old 08-27-2018, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlnbyr View Post
Physical factors come into play, bullet rotation, arc of the bullet dropping at impact, and bullet shape. Notice one side of the hole is a clean cut while the other side is a ragged tear. You want that tear always positioned to the inside towards the dot, why misses high always score better than misses low. John

Learn something new every day it seems. This may explain something I have noticed for awhile. I help score our club matches (IR 50/50 targets) and have noticed for some time that really close shots can fool you based on what you see vs what the plug tells you. A shot that you would not thing was good can prove good upon plugging, and sometimes the opposite happens. I assumed it was due to the resistance of the paper on one side of the hole being greater to the plug than the other side, but had no good sound explanation as to why. Your statement above offers as good a reason as any. I had considered the possibility of small variations in paper density from one place to another as being another possible cause.

What is happening to make a "tear" be more likely to be on the low side of the bullet hole?

Last edited by pump .22s; 08-27-2018 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 08-27-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pump .22s View Post
Learn something new every day it seems. This may explain something I have noticed for awhile. I help score our club matches (IR 50/50 targets) and have noticed for some time that really close shots can fool you based on what you see vs what the plug tells you. A shot that you would not thing was good can prove good upon plugging, and sometimes the opposite happens. I assumed it was due to the resistance of the paper on one side of the hole being greater to the plug than the other side, but had no good sound explanation as to why. Your statement above offers as good a reason as any. I had considered the possibility of small variations in paper density from one place to another as being another possible cause.

What is happening to make a "tear" be more likely to be on the low side of the bullet hole?
Just like it has been said.. that Lapua holes appear "smaller" than Eley holes
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:06 AM
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Combination of the RH rotation and the bullet dropping as it impacts the paper. There is a "push" against the paper on the low side that makes the tear. In IR-50/50 or any other best edge scoring you want the tear just the opposite, make the hole as big as you can.
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:15 AM
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Lacking any solid statistical data based on scientific studies, what you say makes as good a sense as any


One reason we switched to the IR 50 target a few years back was that the USBR target seems to be made of softer paper that tears less uniformly....making it more difficult to score accurately.


Never heard the Lapua holes appearing smaller than Eley thing.....
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:16 PM
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Lots of good conversation here,Now I'll throw another monkey wrench into it

What about backers,I thought about it awhile back,asked Slick if there was any reason I couldn't use my own.Nothing in the rule book

That being said theres something about using a solid core foam board cut to correct size ,that I believe enhances scoring with regards to tearout vs the usual corrugated boards we seem to utilize,kinda got laughed at,but I believe in a case where line lickers can make a 50 into a 100 it might just be cause to think about it.I have been using them of late as the block the light from behind better in the early light of dawn and I can see my target better,just food for thought guys

Top shot,corrugated commonly used backer board,middle shot is the foam board,and the bottom shot is what I use available at Walmart for a $2.50 a board
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:58 PM
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What Mr. Prince Is talking about with the tare and where it is placed at in relation to the bull's center is a very valid point. I have been working a little harder in the last about 6 months and have been, I guess you could say testing, looking at what bulls will win a protest and move up in score vs will loose and stay the same score. If you look at a bull you want to protest and see the paper funneling into the hole go the wrong way (more towards the lower score) then I can say with almost full certainty that when the plug is inserted, it will be shifted away from center and the lower score awarded. This happens even when the plugger inserts the plug correctly with no directional influence because of resistance I guess. I am kind of having a hard time explaining what I am seeing here and hope everyone understands what I am trying to say from the things I have seen.

I have noticed that with the computer scoring, sometimes you get the bulls that I am talking about even though the funnel goes the wrong way. Sometimes you don't. From my understanding, the computer tries to find the center of the shot and evaluates it's relationship to the center point of the bull and then uses a nominal 0.224" bullet size to see if the shot is in or out. This should make it to where no matter how the paper is cut, tore, ripped or what have you it doesn't influence the score. Now there are other things that influences where the computer finds as the center of the shot that effects the score from bullet/lube standpoint from what I have seen but that is neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things. I try to look at it like this, I want to try and get all the line cutters I can but in the end it was probably my fault that I let it get that close and shouldn't complain if it comes to a judgment call. Sucks some times but I shouldn't have missed my hold that far.

I agree with what Tommy is saying about the backer material making a difference and like his idea of providing your own backer to make it best for you. Some hole shapes can be changed on the corrugated backers by where the target is placed onto it from what some have told me. Most of the time my shots are far enough off that I have no benifit from trying to strategically place the target on the backer. Other than trying to ensure that the 100 ring is on a clean spot of the backer on most of the bulls I don't fiddle with it much more than that.

Tad
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