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Old 06-23-2019, 08:42 PM
patriot07

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GM accuracy degradation (cleaning help)



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About 500-600 rounds into my GM barrel. Accuracy initially was .2-.3 at 50 yards. Now moved to .5-.8 depending on how bad the fliers are. Same lot of CCI SV.

For cleaning, I run a patch soaked in hoppes solvent, a copper brush back and forth 4-5 times, another wet patch and then 1-2 dry patches. Doesn't matter how long I continue doing this - the first patch after brushing always comes out dirty.

So at this point, I'm thinking fouling is causing my grouping issues. Any suggestions for best cleaning procedure and/or products?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:50 PM
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About 500-600 rounds into my GM barrel. Accuracy initially was .2-.3 at 50 yards. Now moved to .5-.8 depending on how bad the fliers are. Same lot of CCI SV.

For cleaning, I run a patch soaked in hoppes solvent, a copper brush back and forth 4-5 times, another wet patch and then 1-2 dry patches. Doesn't matter how long I continue doing this - the first patch after brushing always comes out dirty.

So at this point, I'm thinking fouling is causing my grouping issues. Any suggestions for best cleaning procedure and/or products?

Thanks in advance.
Try a patch soaked with Goof Off, the paint cleaning product that is mostly acetone. Let it sit in the chamber for five minutes Then a copper brush. Presto.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:52 PM
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Dry the bore, take a used bore brush and wrap some medium grade bronze wool around it. Run it dry up and down the bore a half dozen times and see if a little pile of lead doesn't fall out. Keep your chamber clean of carbon build-up with a bent bore brush on a handle, Gunsmither makes one you can purchase with a brush and mop at either end.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:55 PM
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thats pretty much how it will go. I dont even run dry patches anymore. you can try other cleaners, and once you get it spotless with them when you go back to hoppes and do that again the patches will come out dirty. it just takes a long time to get a baked in carbon ring out. a little kroil mixed in the hoppes will help, as well as a 6mm brush will make it go quicker. at the point you are at, you dont need to scrub the whole bore, just the throat. you dont have to get it perfectly clean. make a dent in it and then go shoot it and see if the accuracy has come back.

it didnt make sense to me that you were having accuracy issues so soon, but now knowing you were using CCI standard it makes sense. the bands on the cci std are a hair larger than other stuff, so the ring doesnt have to be as big with that bullet to mess up accuracy as with stuff like sk, or even eley. you could also soak the throat in some kroil or ballistol over night to help soak into the ring. i put an ear plug in the chamber, point the barrel in the air and then fill the barrel us a little from the muzzle.
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:02 PM
patriot07

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thats pretty much how it will go. I dont even run dry patches anymore. you can try other cleaners, and once you get it spotless with them when you go back to hoppes and do that again the patches will come out dirty. it just takes a long time to get a baked in carbon ring out. a little kroil mixed in the hoppes will help, as well as a 6mm brush will make it go quicker. at the point you are at, you dont need to scrub the whole bore, just the throat. you dont have to get it perfectly clean. make a dent in it and then go shoot it and see if the accuracy has come back.

it didnt make sense to me that you were having accuracy issues so soon, but now knowing you were using CCI standard it makes sense. the bands on the cci std are a hair larger than other stuff, so the ring doesnt have to be as big with that bullet to mess up accuracy as with stuff like sk, or even eley. you could also soak the throat in some kroil or ballistol over night to help soak into the ring. i put an ear plug in the chamber, point the barrel in the air and then fill the barrel us a little from the muzzle.
Can you get kroil at retail stores? Never seen it before.

Yeah I have copper bristles all over the place from all the brushing - just figured at some point I was banging my head against the wall...
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:17 PM
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you dont have to get it perfectly clean. make a dent in it and then go shoot it and see if the accuracy has come back.
It's $20 per range trip to find out if the accuracy is back, and I already spent my first $20 thinking I was clean enough and being wrong...so I'd prefer not to keep going to that well...
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:26 PM
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Dry the bore, take a used bore brush and wrap some medium grade bronze wool around it. Run it dry up and down the bore a half dozen times and see if a little pile of lead doesn't fall out. Keep your chamber clean of carbon build-up with a bent bore brush on a handle, Gunsmither makes one you can purchase with a brush and mop at either end.
How often do you clean the chamber? Every time you bring it home from the range?
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:28 PM
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Try a patch soaked with Goof Off, the paint cleaning product that is mostly acetone. Let it sit in the chamber for five minutes Then a copper brush. Presto.
Will try that - actually just ran out of acetone today working on something else, so I have to go get some more. Lost our can of goof-off awhile back, so I'll try that first. Is straight acetone too strong?
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:01 PM
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How often do you clean the chamber? Every time you bring it home from the range?
Yes, every time. I also use only One Shot cleaner/dry film lube on all my semi-auto's, even the center fires. If it has a slide it gets TW-25 grease on the rails.
If you use One Shot it avoids building up that muddy residue like using oil produces. I also spray them just before a shoot to make sure the action is well lubed, and make sure to let it dry well before shooting.
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:44 PM
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a copper brush back and forth 4-5 times,
Can you elaborate on this?
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:10 PM
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Can you get kroil at retail stores? Never seen it before.

Yeah I have copper bristles all over the place from all the brushing - just figured at some point I was banging my head against the wall...
midway, brownells, sometimes napa has it.
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:11 PM
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Yes, every time. I also use only One Shot cleaner/dry film lube on all my semi-auto's, even the center fires. If it has a slide it gets TW-25 grease on the rails.
If you use One Shot it avoids building up that muddy residue like using oil produces. I also spray them just before a shoot to make sure the action is well lubed, and make sure to let it dry well before shooting.
from what he is describing it sounds like a carbon ring. not lube related.
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:14 AM
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midway, brownells, sometimes napa has it.
Amazon, eBay, or direct from the manufacturer. You could also mix acetone and ATF 50/50 for a homemade penetrating oil that actually performs marginally better than Kroil. Keep it firmly sealed though, or the acetone will evaporate.
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Old 06-24-2019, 05:03 AM
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Will try that - actually just ran out of acetone today working on something else, so I have to go get some more. Lost our can of goof-off awhile back, so I'll try that first. Is straight acetone too strong?
Not for the metal...but it will dissolve many wood finishes. Ask me how I know.... You can use the straight stuff if you are really careful.
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Old 06-24-2019, 06:13 AM
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It's not worth patching out a 22 till patches come white. That's a good way to wear out your elbow and make yourself hate cleaning. Remember that they dye the bullet wax black.... It's no use trying to surgically clean every little pit and tool mark in the barrel.

Remember your chamber is about 3/4" deep and the carbon ring is usually around 1/2" in from the mouth of the chamber. If the jag disappears - you are in the bore, not the chamber... And you aren't cleaning out the chamber crud.

I use a little scrap of scotch brite pad on a jag and hoppes to scrub out the chamber if it's nasty. A few strokes and it's clean verified by the borescope. I am sure a small scrap of bronze wool would work too. Then run 2-3 patches to get the oil out and done. It takes me 3 or 4 minutes start to finish.

Goof off or some other solvent also works - but you stuff a patch in the chamber and soak it, then let it sit a while. Then patch it out.
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