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Old 11-21-2018, 01:29 PM
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WHY I SHOOT



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This is why I shoot 22lr benchrest. Many years ago I shot all the time with my 52's, 40X's, Anschutz, Walther, Martini. They were all pretty darn accurate. Then I discovered what real accuracy was when I got my first custom and those old rifles haven't seen daylight since. I can't stand to shoot "good enough" or "that's great for a factory gun". If I shoot a target it will be with the intention of scoring the highest possible score I can no excuses or handicap. Why I hate competing in anything that has class levels, who wants to be #1 in the C class. Just me and maybe I am too competitive but why even do it if you don't want to be the best you can.

ARA--PSL--IR50 and the rest you are at the highest level of competition there is. There are no "classes" and all are in the same boat every match and how you shoot is how well you shoot. John
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Old 11-21-2018, 03:47 PM
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I partly agree with what you say, but we all set the standards for what we enjoy or don't enjoy. As a teenager I liked the music other teenagers liked....because they liked it. Now I'm older and like music because I like it....regardless of other's preferences. As to your question, "Why even do it if you don't want to be the best you can?", a lot of folks would be knocked out even trying if the only reasonable and worthwhile goal was to be the absolute best of the total of all those trying regardless of expense or equipment. Many folks, including myself, don't have have a lot of resources to allocate to pursuing the ultimate accuracy goal....so what do they do?...... just give up and find something else to do? Is there something inherently wrong with folks that set their own goals based on their specific means and preferences? If everyone agreed that the only worthwhile accuracy goal was ultimate accuracy by any means, then a lot of shooters would not have much reason to pursue accuracy shooting with their rifles.

As I've stated previously in other posts, my passion is shooting the heavy factory guns and getting the most out of them I can....and has been for near forty years. I know there are lots of custom built guns that are more accurate, but that doesn't bother me in the least.....no more than the guy with a vintage Corvette is bothered by the fact that a modern NASCAR racer can leave him in the dust. My dad taught me to set reasonable goals, do my best, and not sweat what other folks were doing....they are they, and I'm me. Now, like you, I'm just stating what I like and what pushes the right buttons for me, and this is in no way an indictment of your or anyone's opinions. But the notion that there is something second class about folks who pursue the ultimate accuracy in factory guns or some such that is not top of the line custom bench guns strikes me as a bit snobbish. But I can't argue much with someone's personal preferences, and I do respect your viewpoints. As you stated, there was a time when you enjoyed getting maximum accuracy out of factory guns. Now you've changed your goals and moved on. That doesn't mean other folks should do the same....until they feel the desire to.

Last edited by pump .22s; 11-21-2018 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 11-21-2018, 04:13 PM
kseatm
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John, you found the key to the liquor cabinet?

Different people have different goals in life. And different likes, tastes, passions, abilities, and resources. If we were all the same, we'd be the same.

We talked about this down at the barn. Your goals and my goals are completely different in this little game. I respect what you're striving for and hope you get there. And am sure others feel the same.

Not sure anyone that's seriously into BR shooting really understands what I'm here for. But that's not for them to understand anyway. It's all on me, and I'm fine with where I'm at, what I'm doing, where I'm going and how I get there. The reason I say all of this, is that there are a lot of people just like me. Well, sort of like me...well, possibly like me in some ways...maybe?

There are a few things in each person's life that are of utmost importance to them. Neat that we get to choose our goals in life. Not sure how far up the list that being the best at shooting a 22 rifle in BR competition is.

Anyway, James pretty much said it all above. And I agree with him completely.

At the end of the day, we do what we do, and we live with who we are. What makes us happy is good and I can't find fault with how others find their joy. Unless it involves dachshunds. They freak me out!

See you soon John. And save something from the cabinet. We can have one of our "great minds at work" talks. Or just enjoy seeing one another again and having a laugh at each other's expense.

Oh, side note...grab some lighter fluid. In case your guys win Saturday. If it happens, there's sofas to be burned!

Kenny
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Old 11-21-2018, 05:43 PM
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I shoot to overcome my distracting demons and to have the magic happen now and then.
ymmv
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Old 11-21-2018, 06:21 PM
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Why I Shoot

Oh John. Don't take this as anything except my reason for shooting ARA. I have competed in many different shooting disciplines in my 71 years on earth and have had moments of "being the best". While those moments are memorable, all totaled they were only moments. Maybe the modern Olympic creed expressed by its founder Pierre de Coubertin says it best: "The most important thing. . . is not winning but taking part".

I have just finished my first year of ARA and have been to the line with many of the best. Never met one that didn't have words of encouragement for me or anyone else who went to the trouble to "show up and shoot". The ARA is full of great people who I enjoy being around. I want to shoot as well as I possibly can and make my best effort on every shot. That's all I can do and I enjoy the heck out of it. Going to Lake Providence on the 8th and Frog level on the 15th. Who knows, lightning could strike.
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Old 11-21-2018, 07:27 PM
vlnbyr is online now

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Well I knew this would be a can of worms. What makes me go is the struggle and the journey. If I call myself a mountain climber it's because I intend to go to the summit not stop half way up and say that's good enough. To me the whole point of putting a scope on a rifle and shooting at a target is a natural progression with sports like ARA and the PSL being the summit. If you have a choice why would anyone not want to shoot ARA.
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlnbyr View Post
Well I knew this would be a can of worms. What makes me go is the struggle and the journey. If I call myself a mountain climber it's because I intend to go to the summit not stop half way up and say that's good enough. To me the whole point of putting a scope on a rifle and shooting at a target is a natural progression with sports like ARA and the PSL being the summit. If you have a choice why would anyone not want to shoot ARA.

The answer to that question, in my mind, is your title to this thread...."Why I Shoot". Why you shoot and why I shoot and why the next person shoots aren't necessarily for the same reasons, nor are we necessarily seeking the same rewards. What flips our switches is seldom going to be exactly the same thing.....and there is not a thing wrong with that.

As far as opening a can of worms.....naaah....
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Old 11-22-2018, 12:11 AM
kseatm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlnbyr View Post
Well I knew this would be a can of worms. What makes me go is the struggle and the journey. If I call myself a mountain climber it's because I intend to go to the summit not stop half way up and say that's good enough. To me the whole point of putting a scope on a rifle and shooting at a target is a natural progression with sports like ARA and the PSL being the summit. If you have a choice why would anyone not want to shoot ARA.
Not a can of worms at all! And do understand what you're trying to say. I just think not all people look at things the same. And some can't reach for that summit, even if they wanted. So, everyone has their own motivations and goals in this. And their goals are sometimes tempered by what they can afford. Really, if we want to cut to the chase, available resources are what prohibits most from even trying to really get into this heavy. You personally know what it takes to get to the top. We can all dance around it, but the elephant in the room is money. It takes lots of it to reach a certain level. Ammo testing, component testing, travel fees, match fees and the component fees themselves. Then, add in the time involved.

You want to win when the lights are on? Wearing the big boy pants costs money. You think Morrell, Harper, Miller, Donovan etc shoot second hand guns? Do they gamble and buy two or three boxes of different lots of ammo to test. Then, save and buy a brick or two of what looks best for matches? Do they buy one barrel, have it put on and hope for the best? If it doesn't work, do they just keep it or find another barrel? To outsiders, this stuff probably never crosses their minds. But going to the matches, seeing these guys shoot and seeing how they approach this game, it opens your eyes. Nothing against them at all. They've got the resources to do this and they take advantage of them. Would be stupid on their part if they didn't. But you and I both know not everyone can do this. So, the average person saves, cuts corners in other aspects of their life and then does the best they can when they do go to a match. If that means they shoot factory guns, fine by me. As long as they understand what's happening, and don't get disappointed, it's a great thing IMHO. But I can't fault them for the guns they use, the reasons they're there or how they do. Most are just average people doing the best they can with what is available to them.

I like to shoot, period. Winning isn't the main goal in this to me. Do I like it when I do win? Yes, of course I do. But, what do I get when I win? The PSL has money involved. That's a motivator to most. But in all honesty, you win or do really well and you might get a trophy. Or, you might get a sheet of paper printed off saying you did great. Doubt many do this for the trophies, and know for sure most don't do it for a printed piece of paper. Why we do this is a personal thing. And everyone has their own reasons for being there at a match. If they don't match our reasons, who's to say they're wrong or we're right?

Anyway, we'll talk next time we shoot with one another. Hope you and your family have a happy Thanksgiving. Hope to see you do well at Slicks. Buster Blue and Hollywood will be there. I'm stuck in VA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by doclu60 View Post

I could never call you snobby or infer a trip to the liquor cabinet for a post about supporting organised, sanctioned RFBR matches. ......Scott
Why not? Seriously doubt John has an issue with me. As much as we jab back and forth with one another, doubt he's curled up in the fetal position somewhere in a dark recess of an underground bunker. Matter of fact, he's probably thinking of some way to jab me back. Besides, he's a friend of Rhett's. And one thing Rhett is good at is burying the bodies. So, I know not to go too far over the line with either!

As far as the liquor cabinet...you've evidently never had the pleasure of sampling what he keeps in that cabinet.

Kenny
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:26 AM
vlnbyr is online now

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Well it is a can of worms and it was my intention to stir things up a bit. I have found myself questioning why I even do this. Which is a good thing as we all probably need to take a step back once in a while. There is a group of people making good $$$ helping people keep their brains straight and any high level sport can drive you there. There lies the reasoning of my post and from a step back can we take a 100% objective view of why we shoot what we shoot, or why and what we don't shoot.

As for the cost I'm not buying that argument. I would guess that everyone reading this thread has guns they haven't shot in a year or more that would equal or exceed that cost. Now are there guys that spend a ton of $$$, sure but we know you don't have to go that route to have some success and a good time.

And Kenny you're a non-issue. Sorry to burst your bubble.
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:08 AM
HuskerP7M8
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I knew when I saw your post last night that it had the potential to stir up a hornet's nest. I'm glad that didn't happen and if your intentions were to stir things up a bit....I think you've succeeded!

Those that know you well enough are perfectly comfortable with about anything you might say, and from the discussions we've had, you also know I was once an obsessively competitive shooter in other shooting disciplines where I excelled. But, you also know at this point in my competitive shooting career, I'm more like Kenny.

Good Lord! Did I really make a comparison with Kenny! Is that a good or a bad thing! LOL

Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving,
Landy
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:32 AM
kseatm
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Landy, you might want to re evaluate things if you're riding in the wagon I'm in

John, didn't know I had a bubble Don't have an issue with you or your opinions about any of this. Suppose we're just on opposite sides of the fence on some things. Anyway, good luck with your shooting going forward. Good luck in GA. Looks like they're going to have ARA in VA this winter. Hope to see you there.

Kenny
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:32 AM
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I just saw this post after replying to another that addressed the same issue basically and Kenny and I are on the same page regarding the cost associated with winning and getting a high scoring card and pointing up your score.I'm willing to bet after you look at the total cost including,gas,food,amo,hotels,etc you could easly be into the $20-30K range

I used to run a circuit shooting billiards many yrs ago.Did quite well actually won on a team oriented National Championship in Vegas and competed locally losing and winning a decent share of money in side games,etc.In the end it cost me a lot,for what, about a dozen trophys and loss of time with family I'll never get back.

It is what you make of it.I'll probably do what I did back then ,compete for a while,see where it goes and find another sport or something to occupy my time.

Don't get me wrong I love this sport,started way back H.S. shooting team sports and had quit till about 4 yrs ago,then bought a Kimber 82 and tried my hand at it.It is fun,thats why I do it,the camaradry,the sportmanship,just plain having fun win or lose is all I need,No championship necessary for me and I'll never spend the kind of money necessary to win a big National,just isn't in the cards.

I know John,we chat on occassion and I have a high repect for him,Kenny and many,many others and have been given the great opportunity to compete with them .

In the end its all about having a good time,when that stops and it becomes a chore then I'll move on to something else possibly,maybe sharkfishing

Last edited by tommyt654; 11-22-2018 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 11-22-2018, 09:48 AM
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John,

The reason I shoot is, it is like going to the rest home to visit the old folks.

It can be fun and interesting listening to the stories from days gone by! LOL...…


Jim S.
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:07 AM
vlnbyr is online now

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OK got that stir stick. Equipment and $$$$. This game is mostly a head game. I am thinking the overall level of equipment of the top finishing shooters isn't superior enough to account for the differences of finish. Winners win mostly because they are better shooters, have a will to win and are more competitive. They are able to maintain a high level of concentration throughout a target and the match and when the difference is usually one or two shots per target 100s vs 50s that is what counts at the end of the day. This part of the game doesn't cost you any $ at all, it's free.

See my thread The Benchrest Road.

One thing I see is an overall decrease in the competitive spirit. A person who wants to win is looked upon as having an undesirable mindset. If you don't have the will to excel then you are doomed at the start. One way to get a clear perspective is to look through the eyes of a child. Has any person reading this and playing sports as a kid ever aspired to be mid-pack or just average? Time and experience has a way of beating us down but it doesn't have to be that way. My two cents. John
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:14 AM
Stevep244

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I shoot because I enjoy trying to improve my shooting and equipment as I learn more about this sport.

My dad and son also shoot benchrest matches too. The highlight of my year was when we finished 1st 2nd and 3rd at our local club unlimited match, with guns my dad built. The people I have met while shooting are a great bunch of guys.

I shot 2 ARA matches this fall, and am planning on shooting more. There is a lot to for me to learn, which is the challenge I like. I shoot try to improve some aspect of my shooting each time. I compete against my own personal best score trying to measure my improvements.

With all that said, I shoot because its fun, challenging and the camaraderie!
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