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  #16  
Old 02-21-2020, 09:07 PM
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Gun screws and torque



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[QUOTE=dryfly24;11785815]Peashooter,



How far off is the Fat wrench from your other wrench? Iíve been using a Fat Wrench for as long as I can remember and Iíve been pretty satisfied but always suspected it probably isn't very accurate.[/

I didnít pay attention

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  #17  
Old 02-21-2020, 09:56 PM
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gcrank1

"The +/- was considerable even with expensive equipment".

The good ones state +/- 6% but mine and most all of the goods one will test out at +/- 2% which is better than needed.
And yes dry or wet will makes a large difference in the final real torque.
Which is why I clean my screws with acetone.
LOCTITE will also effect the final torque. When I use LOCTITE I under torque.

Even at +/- 6% 25 inch pounds would be 26.5 to 23.5, so pretty close.

dryfly24

I've put my CDI up against a bunch Fat Wrenches over the years, and some are not bad, and some have been way off.
And by way off, I mean 20% or more.
The other issue is that longevity isn't one of their strengths.

Smooth
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  #18  
Old 02-21-2020, 10:01 PM
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If memory serves Wheeler recommends storing em set @ 0 poundage, just like I do my trigger/hammer springs.
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2020, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Al the Infidel View Post
If memory serves Wheeler recommends storing em set @ 0 poundage, just like I do my trigger/hammer springs.
Yes, all torque wrenches should be stored at zero. It is also recommended that you work up to your final torque, so the torque wrench can ďwarm upĒ.
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2020, 02:36 PM
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I think I have at least two torque wrenches and my thought is it really does not matter how accurate they are. What IS important is that they are repeatable. You are not building engines where specific values are what is important.

Just because my rifle may be most accurate at 16 inch pounds yours may be best at 24. You will only know this by testing YOUR rifle not by going with what i tell you my rifles work at!

You need to shoot your rifle at several torque values and see what you need. If you wrench repeats that is all that really matters.
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  #21  
Old 02-29-2020, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoothtrigger View Post
gcrank1

"The +/- was considerable even with expensive equipment".

The good ones state +/- 6% but mine and most all of the goods one will test out at +/- 2% which is better than needed.
And yes dry or wet will makes a large difference in the final real torque.
Which is why I clean my screws with acetone.
LOCTITE will also effect the final torque. When I use LOCTITE I under torque.

Even at +/- 6% 25 inch pounds would be 26.5 to 23.5, so pretty close.

dryfly24

I've put my CDI up against a bunch Fat Wrenches over the years, and some are not bad, and some have been way off.
And by way off, I mean 20% or more.
The other issue is that longevity isn't one of their strengths.

Smooth
Thanks,

Iíve had it a very long time. maybe Iím due for an upgrade...
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  #22  
Old 02-29-2020, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Al the Infidel View Post
If memory serves Wheeler recommends storing em set @ 0 poundage, just like I do my trigger/hammer springs.
I am very anal about doing that.

Having said that, I recall the Army doing an experiment a very long time ago on spring life as it relates to weapons systems and magazines where they determined that compressing a spring has zero effect on its life. It seems counterintuitive but thatís what they determined after extensive study.
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  #23  
Old 02-29-2020, 11:09 AM
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Sorry, Double Tap...
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  #24  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:08 PM
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I am very anal about doing that.

Having said that, I recall the Army doing an experiment a very long time ago on spring life as it relates to weapons systems and magazines where they determined that compressing a spring has zero effect on its life. It seems counterintuitive but that’s what they determined after extensive study.
Life and free length are different things. Store a torque wrench with the spring tensioned and you will some spring set. Its life might stay the same but it's free length will not.

Back to the topic at hand, I own a CDI torque wrench (the small one) and I never use it on my guns anymore.

I fully converted to Utica TS series torque limiting screwdrivers for this application. They have a wider torque range, they are very consistent, they work with standard 1/4" hex bits, they are industrial grade tools, and they are available used for $65 on eBay.

It's quite easy to calibrate one, too, using a 1/4" allen key with a ball end. Put the short end in the driver and hang a weight in the groove on the ball end. A tiny bit of simple math allows you exact torque measurements with home tools.
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  #25  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:05 PM
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Here is a review of gunsmithing torque wrenches with links that might be of some help. https://sentineltactical.com/torque-...r-gunsmithing/
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  #26  
Old 02-29-2020, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dryfly24 View Post
Having said that, I recall the Army doing an experiment a very long time ago on spring life as it relates to weapons systems and magazines where they determined that compressing a spring has zero effect on its life. It seems counterintuitive but thatís what they determined after extensive study.
Then again I suspect the springs tested weren't made in China.
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  #27  
Old 02-29-2020, 04:36 PM
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But those soft 'springs' wont snap from over-temper......
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  #28  
Old 02-29-2020, 04:57 PM
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dgeesaman

So I have no issues with the Utica TS drivers in general.

However I can't find the model that has a wider range than the CDI. (Need a Model #)
And the ones I did find seem to have a much higher street price price than the CDI.
(Whats the best price /link for a new one that you know of.)

I highlighted in red the qualities that they share.
From post #24.
I fully converted to Utica TS series torque limiting screwdrivers for this application. They have a wider torque range, they are very consistent, they work with standard 1/4" hex bits, they are industrial grade tools, and they are available used for $65 on eBay.

The CDI 401 is the winner in this BEST TORQUE WRENCHES FOR GUNSMITHING- TOP 10 REVIEWS, but the Utica tools weren't tested or mentioned.
https://sentineltactical.com/torque-...r-gunsmithing/ From Gmww post #25

Smooth

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 02-29-2020 at 08:43 PM.
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  #29  
Old 02-29-2020, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoothtrigger View Post
dgeesaman

So I have no issues with the Utica TS drivers general.

However I can't find the model that has a wider range than the CDI. (Need a Model #)
And the ones I did find seem to have a much higher street price price than the CDI.
(Whats the best price /link for a new one that you know of.)

I highlighted in red the qualities that they share.
From post #24.
I fully converted to Utica TS series torque limiting screwdrivers for this application. They have a wider torque range, they are very consistent, they work with standard 1/4" hex bits, they are industrial grade tools, and they are available used for $65 on eBay.

The CDI 401 is the winner in this BEST TORQUE WRENCHES FOR GUNSMITHING- TOP 10 REVIEWS, but the Utica tools weren't tested or mentioned.
https://sentineltactical.com/torque-...r-gunsmithing/ From Gmww post #25

Smooth
Sorry for the confusion, the Utica has a wider torque adjust range than any other screwdriver type I've seen. The TS-100 is about perfect for gunsmithing.

Beam type wrenches do allow a wider adjustment. However I question the value because it takes multiple hands to properly use one. So if we're talking about beam wrenches we should add what you use to hold the rifle while tightening.

And again on the used Utica, for $65 it's immensely difficult find a comparable tool. At the brand new price of $385 I'm not so sure.

David

Last edited by dgeesaman; 02-29-2020 at 05:30 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-29-2020, 07:53 PM
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I got lucky when I found this set of unused Tohnichi torque drivers. 1-10 model measures rh or lh in 2/10 in lb increments, 0-40 in 1 in lb. I don’t think there’s a higher quality instrument made, but pricey. Can be set to preload torque or just rh or lh torque in either zero to torque or preload torque.
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