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Old 07-12-2019, 10:09 PM
agp22

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Does my P22 need the tigger ear mod? Pics included



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Folks,

I recently got a P22 and have been breaking it in at the range with CCI MiniMags and trying various types of ammo to see what it likes.

Like many of these P22s, mine was pretty unreliable the first ~200 rounds, so I took a look at the P22 Bible and decided to try the trigger ears mod and the feed ramp mod.

Thing is, the second time I had the gun apart for cleaning, I took a close look at the trigger ears and the feed ramp and mine look more like the after-mod pictures in the P22 bible than the before pics. I attached the pictures to the post, can some of you guys with more P22 experience weigh in?

Feed Ramp:
https://imgur.com/SahCHVy

Trigger bar ears:
https://imgur.com/zt5SPbb
https://imgur.com/o1sH9DK


Anyway, after about 300 rounds, the gun now fires MiniMags with about 95% reliability. I get occasional failures to fire (1 in 20) or return to battery (1 in 10), but extraction is perfect. Seems to be trending towards the better.

I also tried CCI AR Tactical (40gr 1200fps round nose) and it fires that stuff perfectly, no failures of any kind in 100 rounds including one rapid fire mag dump. I can definitely recommend this ammo, it's a bit cheaper than MiniMags around me so this is what I'll be feeding my P22 from now on.

Thanks!
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Old 07-13-2019, 03:26 PM
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Looks good to me. They did address those issues in more recent production runs. Sounds like you got yours running with the ammo change. The only other easy thing to do is use a good dry lube if you aren't already.
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Old 07-13-2019, 03:48 PM
agp22

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Thanks, doublechaz. I did get some Otis dry lube on there as well. the first time I took the gun out it was swimming in some kind of oil from the factory and it gave me loads of trouble. Cleaned that up for the second time out which helped a lot. Third time I applied the dry lube to some additional friction points (like where the slide meets the frame).

It the Otis stuff about comparable to RemOil? Those are the only 2 I could find locally.

Thanks again.
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Old 07-13-2019, 08:15 PM
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I've never used the Otis so I couldn't say. Without a pretty deep search I'd say if it costs similar to Rem, then it probably performs similar.
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Old 07-14-2019, 12:48 AM
1917-1911M is online now
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Your feed ramp looks very good. Walther has had this down to a fine point for years now. Your trigger bar ear looks pretty good too. I can lay one back to match the slope of the ramp under the slide and eliminate all wear but I don't think yours is going to cause problems. The problem was where the ear would chew out the underside of the slide. Only the top, front edge of the ear touches the slide. Walther expects you to take the pistol out of the box, clean it a bit and start shooting. It has a lifetime warranty. The bible was made by someone of my threads.....that was a long time ago. Some parts of the pistol have changed, some remain the same. It is a pretty problem free pistol now but you must hold it firmly and use ammo that is powerful enough to cycle the slide. Below is a picture of what trigger bar ears once looked like and they would chew up the underside of the slide pronto. 1917



This is what a sharp trigger bar ear looked like. This would shave zinc off under the slide with every shot.
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
Your feed ramp looks very good. Walther has had this down to a fine point for years now. Your trigger bar ear looks pretty good too. I can lay one back to match the slope of the ramp under the slide and eliminate all wear but I don't think yours is going to cause problems. The problem was where the ear would chew out the underside of the slide. Only the top, front edge of the ear touches the slide. Walther expects you to take the pistol out of the box, clean it a bit and start shooting. It has a lifetime warranty. The bible was made by someone of my threads.....that was a long time ago. Some parts of the pistol have changed, some remain the same. It is a pretty problem free pistol now but you must hold it firmly and use ammo that is powerful enough to cycle the slide. Below is a picture of what trigger bar ears once looked like and they would chew up the underside of the slide pronto. 1917







This is what a sharp trigger bar ear looked like. This would shave zinc off under the slide with every shot.
1917 First I wanted to thank you for all your contributions for this pistol. I seen many references to you and this gun from other forums and this is how I ended up here. I went to break in my daughters new P22 and with CCI mini mags 36 grain had tons of FTE. What ammo would you recommend? I read use 40 grain instead, and try various ammo like Remington gold or stingers for break in? Sorry if this has been beaten into the ground already, I am reading everything I can to try and catch up but it appears there has been many chances to this pistol over time. I am going to take a trip back to the range without my daughter and see if I find ammo it likes. If that doesn't work I guess send it in for repair on a new gun

Nothing worse than having a young one excited to shoot her new gun and not being able to get through your mag without issues. Thanks again!

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Old 02-17-2020, 09:05 PM
1917-1911M is online now
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Thanks GunDad, it's just one of many hobbies. I've never run into any P22s that need breaking in. Some shooting probably does polish off some small areas of roughness but Walther has these functioning pretty good these days. .22 pistols with short barrels can be a bit tricky to balance in regard to a small, relatively weak ammo with the job it is tasked with in making a semi auto pistol function. The round has to produce enough energy to move the mass of the slide, compress the recoil spring, cock the hammer, overcome friction and still have the spent case hit the ejector with enough energy to bounce out of the pistol. These are blowback operated pistols. The hot expanding gas that pushes the round down and out of the barrel is delayed in its rearward movement by the mass of the slide or bolt but not so much that the rear parts don't function. If the ammo is too weak, it imply doesn't produce enough blowback energy to cycle the slide and perform all of these functions.

Something as simple as not holding the pistol firmly can upset all of the careful engineering. From early reports on the new Glock .22....a lot more work needs to done before it will be reliable. Something Glock has reportedly is one of their main goals for the pistol. Firm grip....always. How the P22 is failing to function is usually what tells us what the problem might be.

Mini mags in 36gr or 40 gr should both be excellent ammo. If the pistol won't function with them and with a firm grip then we must look elsewhere. Recently there have been a few issues reported with recent chambers where more powerful ammo like mini mags were not extracting and ejecting properly. In one or two cases the chamber needed to be re-honed at Ft Smith. What problems are you having? 1917
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Old 02-17-2020, 09:14 PM
GunDad

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Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
Thanks GunDad, it's just one of many hobbies. I've never run into any P22s that need breaking in. Some shooting probably does polish off some small areas of roughness but Walther has these functioning pretty good these days. .22 pistols with short barrels can be a bit tricky to balance in regard to a small, relatively weak ammo with the job it is tasked with in making a semi auto pistol function. The round has to produce enough energy to move the mass of the slide, compress the recoil spring, cock the hammer, overcome friction and still have the spent case hit the ejector with enough energy to bounce out of the pistol. These are blowback operated pistols. The hot expanding gas that pushes the round down and out of the barrel is delayed in its rearward movement by the mass of the slide or bolt but not so much that the rear parts don't function. If the ammo is too weak, it imply doesn't produce enough blowback energy to cycle the slide and perform all of these functions.

Something as simple as not holding the pistol firmly can upset all of the careful engineering. From early reports on the new Glock .22....a lot more work needs to done before it will be reliable. Something Glock has reportedly is one of their main goals for the pistol. Firm grip....always. How the P22 is failing to function is usually what tells us what the problem might be.

Mini mags in 36gr or 40 gr should both be excellent ammo. If the pistol won't function with them and with a firm grip then we must look elsewhere. Recently there have been a few issues reported with recent chambers where more powerful ammo like mini mags were not extracting and ejecting properly. In one or two cases the chamber needed to be re-honed at Ft Smith. What problems are you having? 1917
1917 thanks for getting back to me. The issue I am having was with 36 grain mini mags. Every mag except for a couple would get several FTE. The case would not eject all the way causing the next round to jam under it. I would have to keep pulling the mag and using a cleaning rod to push out the spent casing. I was going to go back to the range Thursday with some stingers and 40 grain mini mags and try some other ammo around the 1400 fps as many suggest. If it still doesn't cycle properly I was deciding to send it back for Walthers to repair or try the steps in the Bible. I hate to have to start doing those steps when I hear that most the issues have been worked out with the new P22's.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!

Edit: Oh and I did think about limp wristing and took the pistol myself and shot a mag through it and had the same issue with a solid grip. I have seen a friend limp wrist his Glock 26 with his non dominant hand and wanted to rule that out.

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Last edited by GunDad; 02-17-2020 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:19 PM
1917-1911M is online now
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I'm going to try to put this in a step by step, logical manner of how I would try to diagnosis this. I wouldn't purchase any Stingers. The pistol needs to run on regular ammo that has demonstrated over the years in other peoples firearms that it provides reliable function. Mini Mags and Remington Golden Bullets should do.

1. Inspect the ammo to make sure it isn't bent out of shape or any other noticeable defect. Note; RGB ammo will have a loose projectile where it fits the case. Not sure why...just the way it is and has been forever.

2. Remove the slide and give 10 or 15 rounds of each ammo the plunk test...round dropping freely all the way into the chamber under gravity. If not, clean the chamber and recheck. When and if you get this resolved:

3. Load a mag with Mini Mags. Insert and chamber the first round. Did the slide fully close? If so the pistol is ready for firing. Note, you can quiet the report considerably by holding the muzzle 2" off of the grass when test firing.

4. What should happen is the round should fire, the spent case should fly out the ejection port and the next round should be loaded, hammer cocked.

5. FTE vs FTE When this is typed, we don't know if fail to extract or fail to eject is meant. There is a big difference. If fail to extract that means the spent case is still in the chamber. Of course it isn't supposed to remain in the chamber in a semi auto. Two things possibly happened; a. The round was too weak to blow the slide back far enough so that the spent case hit the ejector and the closing slide either jambs the spent case in some manner or shoves it back into the chamber. If the case is still in the chamber, failure to extract. This point can be argued in that possibly the case extracted but failed to eject and got shoved back into the chamber. If the case was shoved back into the chamber and the next round partially stripped from the mag this is likely what happened. Regardless, we need to get to the bottom of what is going on.

6. Drop the mag and remove any round that is out of position. Now pull the slide rearward being careful not to press down on the rear of the extractor which will lift the front. What we are wanting to determine is can the extractor easily remove the spent case. If so, weak round. If not...bad ammo or bad chamber. Remember, we have ruled out the chamber being dirty. If the extractor is skipping over the rim and won't remove the case either tap it out with a section of cleaning rod, wood dowel, etc. or press down on the front of the extractor hard and pull it out. Inspect the case. Did it split? Ammo problem. Does it seem to have scratches or bulges along the case that should not be there? Chamber problem. Repeat the test. If the cases are stuck. Chamber problem.

7. Test with RGB or other ammo and see if you get the same results. If so call Ft Smith, tell them your procedure and that the cases are sticking, hard.

8. It is possible that with mini mags for example that the case is expanding against an improperly machined chamber but the case is still extracting, but having to spend too much energy doing so. Resulting in short strokes/rechambering of the spent case or jamming the extracted case in some manner. One person here recently was having issues with CCI Mini Mags and not other brands of weaker ammo. Chamber problem.

The P22 should run thousands or rounds without issue or cleaning. Something is wrong with your ammo or your chamber. Trying different ammo is easy. Keep us posted. 1917
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Old 02-18-2020, 05:05 PM
GunDad

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Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
I'm going to try to put this in a step by step, logical manner of how I would try to diagnosis this. I wouldn't purchase any Stingers. The pistol needs to run on regular ammo that has demonstrated over the years in other peoples firearms that it provides reliable function. Mini Mags and Remington Golden Bullets should do.

1. Inspect the ammo to make sure it isn't bent out of shape or any other noticeable defect. Note; RGB ammo will have a loose projectile where it fits the case. Not sure why...just the way it is and has been forever.

2. Remove the slide and give 10 or 15 rounds of each ammo the plunk test...round dropping freely all the way into the chamber under gravity. If not, clean the chamber and recheck. When and if you get this resolved:

3. Load a mag with Mini Mags. Insert and chamber the first round. Did the slide fully close? If so the pistol is ready for firing. Note, you can quiet the report considerably by holding the muzzle 2" off of the grass when test firing.

4. What should happen is the round should fire, the spent case should fly out the ejection port and the next round should be loaded, hammer cocked.

5. FTE vs FTE When this is typed, we don't know if fail to extract or fail to eject is meant. There is a big difference. If fail to extract that means the spent case is still in the chamber. Of course it isn't supposed to remain in the chamber in a semi auto. Two things possibly happened; a. The round was too weak to blow the slide back far enough so that the spent case hit the ejector and the closing slide either jambs the spent case in some manner or shoves it back into the chamber. If the case is still in the chamber, failure to extract. This point can be argued in that possibly the case extracted but failed to eject and got shoved back into the chamber. If the case was shoved back into the chamber and the next round partially stripped from the mag this is likely what happened. Regardless, we need to get to the bottom of what is going on.

6. Drop the mag and remove any round that is out of position. Now pull the slide rearward being careful not to press down on the rear of the extractor which will lift the front. What we are wanting to determine is can the extractor easily remove the spent case. If so, weak round. If not...bad ammo or bad chamber. Remember, we have ruled out the chamber being dirty. If the extractor is skipping over the rim and won't remove the case either tap it out with a section of cleaning rod, wood dowel, etc. or press down on the front of the extractor hard and pull it out. Inspect the case. Did it split? Ammo problem. Does it seem to have scratches or bulges along the case that should not be there? Chamber problem. Repeat the test. If the cases are stuck. Chamber problem.

7. Test with RGB or other ammo and see if you get the same results. If so call Ft Smith, tell them your procedure and that the cases are sticking, hard.

8. It is possible that with mini mags for example that the case is expanding against an improperly machined chamber but the case is still extracting, but having to spend too much energy doing so. Resulting in short strokes/rechambering of the spent case or jamming the extracted case in some manner. One person here recently was having issues with CCI Mini Mags and not other brands of weaker ammo. Chamber problem.

The P22 should run thousands or rounds without issue or cleaning. Something is wrong with your ammo or your chamber. Trying different ammo is easy. Keep us posted. 1917
1917 thank you again for your expertise and help figuring this out. I will let you know what I know so far.

1) I only have CCI minimags at this time and stingers in my inventory. All ammo is new and looks fine. No issues with dents or any defects

2) Plunk test with flying colors. Rounds drip in and fall right out when turned upside down.

3) With mag inserted first round loads into the chamber no issues everytime. I had no issues feeding the first round.

4) Unfortunately, being in California I cannot test fire in my back yard at all. It is sad but any little pop will have the police coming with weapons drawn. I will have to go back to the range.

5) This is where I need to do more testing. What I seen happening every time I believe was a fail to extract. The slide locks back and you can see the case is partially back and next round was trying to feed and jammed under the case. Each time I had to drop the mag to move the slide. Sometimes the spent case would fall out and other times it would go back flush in chamber and I had to push it out with a cleaning rod.

6) I would have to test further by myself. I was trying to just keep in going and troubleshoot while my daughter was shooting. I did look at case and didn't notice any splits case but need to look more for bulging or other defects.

7) I need to pick up some RGB. Like I mentioned before I am stocked up with my ammo before the new ammo law went into effect. So all I have is a bunch of minimags and a few boxes of stingers.

I talked to by FFL and mentioned what was happening and possibilities you mentioned. He agrees that it should be sent back. I work 12 hr shifts and will try to get back to the range before I take it back. He told me to come in Thursday to drop it off to him. Being it's brand new I will most likely just send it back through him. If I get to the range before sending it back I will double check all these steps and take better notes. Thank you again for all your help and advise. I know it's hard to troubleshoot something without seeing it and having all the answers to these questions. If I get into the range before he has me come by to drop it off I will update results to missing questions. If not and I send it back I will definitely give an update when I get it back. Thank you again I really appreciate your time and support!!

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Old 02-18-2020, 08:45 PM
1917-1911M is online now
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Does the slide cycle properly by hand? Is the recoil spring stock? It still sounds like the spent case is hanging up in the chamber, using up most of the blowback/recoil energy to partially extract the expanded case. Ft Smith will e-mail you a shipping label, make sure the pistol is unloaded and ship it back to them. You can use a FFL if you like but it isn't necessary.....at least not here. Not sure about CA. We have laws about ammo here too......it is illegal to steal any from a store...other than that you can purchase any and as much as you like.

I'm not sure what is going on with your pistol but it seems the spent case is moving enough to knock your slide back far enough for the breech rail to shove the next round forward...only it can't go forward due to the spent case not being extracted and ejected. The only thing I can figure is that the case is binding in the chamber for some reason. So, how are you removing the spent case and does it appear to be stuck in the chamber? If you have a bad chamber this issue should be occurring on a regular basis.

If you weren't in CA with a CA pistol the barrel could be swapped in about 1 minute with another for test purposes. Oh, and something wrong in the chamber does not have to be big, in fact it could be rather hard to see.
1917

Last edited by 1917-1911M; 02-18-2020 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 02-18-2020, 09:50 PM
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Does the slide cycle properly by hand? Is the recoil spring stock? It still sounds like the spent case is hanging up in the chamber, using up most of the blowback/recoil energy to partially extract the expanded case. Ft Smith will e-mail you a shipping label, make sure the pistol is unloaded and ship it back to them. You can use a FFL if you like but it isn't necessary.....at least not here. Not sure about CA. We have laws about ammo here too......it is illegal to steal any from a store...other than that you can purchase any and as much as you like.

I'm not sure what is going on with your pistol but it seems the spent case is moving enough to knock your slide back far enough for the breech rail to shove the next round forward...only it can't go forward due to the spent case not being extracted and ejected. The only thing I can figure is that the case is binding in the chamber for some reason. So, how are you removing the spent case and does it appear to be stuck in the chamber? If you have a bad chamber this issue should be occurring on a regular basis.

If you weren't in CA with a CA pistol the barrel could be swapped in about 1 minute with another for test purposes. Oh, and something wrong in the chamber does not have to be big, in fact it could be rather hard to see.
1917
Yeah I have lived in California all my life. Love the area but hate the politics here. Worse place to live if you are a gun owner.

I did put a Galloway captured recoil spring in it but half way through the range trip put the stock spring back in to rule the Galloway one out. Issue happened with stock and Galloway. Slide feels fine by hand only a small amount of hangup over the hammer but not too bad. I am getting the case out with a cleaning rod from the front and yes the case is in there pretty good. I am thinking at this point it is a chamber issue.

I am going to contact Walthers tomorrow and see if I can send it back directly or have to use my FFL. I was also thinking the same thing about the stupid CA nut on the barrel. I am sure I could heat the nut up and get it off the barrel, I have seen other report doing that. But I wouldn't be able to get a barrel replacement since it is threaded here. Our gun laws are a joke here. I will update you guys with what happens. Thanks a lot again for all the help and advice!

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Old 02-18-2020, 10:57 PM
1917-1911M is online now
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All P22 barrels are threaded. A barrel nut and sleeve is how they are tightened against the frame. What Walther had to do to get the pistol off the CA assault ban list was glue the nut on and remove the wrench lands. There is really no reason to remove the barrel when cleaning but Walther makes a 5" target barrel, once upon a time sold a two barrel unit, and that was one of the features of the gun. Easy to mount a thread adapter for a suppressor and two barrels. 3.4"" regular and a 5" target with stabilizer.

Apparently Walther did not attempt to get other similar pistols approved in CA. In most States you can call Walther at Ft Smith, tell them the issue and that you have tried this and that and discussed it thoroughly and there appears to be a chamber problem. I have already informed the head of the customer service dept of these showing up and they have repaired some already. They will send you a shipping label by e mail. Unload, put it in the case and ship it off. They will ship back to your door. If CA works differently they will be able to advise. Send it off...this is not a break in problem. It will be back shortly. 1917
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:07 PM
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I really like California. Was just out there after finishing two months of cancer treatment at MD Anderson in Houston. Hit S Lake Tahoe, drove down to Yosemite, over to San Francisco, down to Carmel, up to Sonoma to have Thanksgiving with an old friend from high school. Wife and I had a great trip. There is more to life than guns. 1917
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:17 PM
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I really like California. Was just out there after finishing two months of cancer treatment at MD Anderson in Houston. Hit S Lake Tahoe, drove down to Yosemite, over to San Francisco, down to Carmel, up to Sonoma to have Thanksgiving with an old friend from high school. Wife and I had a great trip. There is more to life than guns. 1917
Awesome pics, yes California is very beautiful. I live about 45 minutes from SF and have been to all the areas you visited. I am glad you are done with your treatment, I wish you all the best. That is a tough thing to deal with, we have had a lot of cancer in our family and it sucks. I will get my daughter's P22 to Walthers and let them get it right so she has a good experience. I will see if I can send it to them directly but I know they can't send it back to me. We can't even order ammo online and have it delivered to your home.

Thanks again for everything!! I really appreciate it, I will have her shoot my M&P 15-22 until it gets back. She prefers the pistols over rifles though.

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