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Old 04-20-2021, 11:14 AM
tbates66
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Zeroing the 17HMR??



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Just wondering about your experience. I have two Anschuitz 1517 17HMR. Both very accurate. I zero them both at 50yds. At 100 they shoot very flat and if all goes well, I rarely miss a 100 yd prairie dog. But I have encountered a puzzling experience. I'll have a good shot at a dog at, say, 100-125yds>. I aim dead center and it shoots slightly high; enough so that I miss. Happens mostly when there is a slight breeze, either in my face or at my back. It's as if the bullet floats on the wind. Have you encountered this? If it's a cross wind, I may hold on the right or left side of the target, depending on the direction, but the cross wind does not make the bullet rise. My buddy has experienced the same thing with his Marlin. Wondering about your experience.
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Old 04-20-2021, 12:53 PM
jaia
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Yep, tailwind or headwind affect time of flight.
Changes vertical point of impact.
Tailwind I usually hit higher than my normal zero.
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Old 04-20-2021, 03:23 PM
doclu60
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Reading wind, especially when precision shooting is a must. I would not really consider hunting p-dogs at .17hmr ranges precision shooting, but it is still a small target as far as hunting goes.

If one shoots competitive RFBR, it really shows in your scores, if you don't master wind reading. Time of fight really has little to do with tail and head wind pushing the bullet. The residence on the bullet, head wind, or lack of residence, tail wind, is what causes the bullet to raise or drop. It will not be consistent though if you have topographical features that will cause the wind to do things that a 'wind rose' or wind chart will not show. Example: range I have shot several matches at has a predominate head wind. A bullet in stronger winds should go low, but it doesn't. It always goes high. Reason, a huge back stop at 100yds deflects the wind down and it pushes back up off the ground just before and just after the 50yd board where our targets are. This causes an updraft just behind and ahead of the target, pushing the bullet high. Totally against conventional wisdom of where the bullet should go, but that's where it goes. Time of flight had nothing to do with the push. Physical effect of the wind movement caused that bullet to go high when it should have gone low.....period.

Go on line and get/look at a wind chart, sometimes called 'wind roses'. You will see that not only head and tail winds effect vertical push, both high and low, but angled wind and 90 degree wind does too. Remember though, they are not set in stone. They are formulated on a perfect scenario of where the wind 'should' push the bullet, not taking features of where you are actually shooting into account. This is where guys shooting RFBR use sighters to confirm where the bullet is going to go before shooting for record. In a hunting situation, sighters are not practical, but the precision level has dropped considerably and a wind chart may well help in making good hits in the field on live targets.

.17hmr bullets are light and respond to physical effects of wind a little more severely than heavier bullets. Get a wind chart and do some practice at 100yds during windy conditions. Use some flags, doesn't have to be competition flags. Sticks with some surveyors tape on them will work. Use a center hold with a well zeroed rifle and you will see the push. Hope this helps.

Scott
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:43 PM
pipestone
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You might try a 100yd zero and see if things change, experienced the 'floating' rise off target across canyons at distance..next shot just bring it down some and try again

I use the gophers or the dust or the ground as my sighters..I do quite well in most of the winds if i shoot with it..avoid cross wind.. messes things up bad

..I'm a hunter, not a competitive shooter. Tally out of a box of fifty was 47 squirrels confirmed guts and gore Saturday morning and it was windy. Kill zone with a 17 is..

well...most anywhere



pipestone
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Old 04-20-2021, 11:52 PM
tbates66
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Indeed these responses are helpful. Since I have two Anschutz 1517s, my plan is to zero one at 50 and the other at 100. I'll see how well they work next month during my first p-dog shoot this year. Wish me luck and good wind reading.
Quick story: I was shooting p-dogs in a fierce wind one day and decided to give up and head to the motel. Had one more shot in my Ruger #1 .204 using 32 gr bullets. I see a dog out about 200+ yds and there is a 50 mph cross wind. So, I hold about 3ft to the left of him and fire a prayer shot and it hits 4ft to the right. Yeah, wind can be a really big factor.
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:24 AM
doclu60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipestone View Post
You might try a 100yd zero and see if things change, experienced the 'floating' rise off target across canyons at distance..next shot just bring it down some and try again

I use the gophers or the dust or the ground as my sighters..I do quite well in most of the winds if i shoot with it..avoid cross wind.. messes things up bad

..I'm a hunter, not a competitive shooter. Tally out of a box of fifty was 47 squirrels confirmed guts and gore Saturday morning and it was windy. Kill zone with a 17 is..

well...most anywhere



pipestone
I agree with several points made above. I mostly shoot competitive RFBR, but I do hunt some as well. The correlation between the two as far as understanding wind push is mostly the same though. I noticed when I got my first .17hmr recently, that 50yd zero and 100yd zero were very close to each other. Of course, with the niche the .17 fills, 100yd zero was my choice.

When I was shaking the little rifle out, and having no experience with the round, I found practice at 100yd with rifle zeroed and a center hold gave me a very good indication of where the push was. As in my first post though, that indication may only apply to where I was shooting. The above mentioned example of shooting over a canyon is excellent, as your push may not be the same as what 'typical' knowledge of where the push should be holds true.

Scott
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Old 04-28-2021, 03:26 PM
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Wink

If you sight in 3/4Ē high at 100 yards, you are killing ground squirrels out to around 175 yards with no holdover at all. This is for ideal conditions, of course.

My Anschutz 1717 d is sighted this way since 2002 and has accounted for thousands of varmints.
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Old 04-28-2021, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tbates66 View Post
Indeed these responses are helpful. Since I have two Anschutz 1517s, my plan is to zero one at 50 and the other at 100. I'll see how well they work next month during my first p-dog shoot this year. Wish me luck and good wind reading.
Quick story: I was shooting p-dogs in a fierce wind one day and decided to give up and head to the motel. Had one more shot in my Ruger #1 .204 using 32 gr bullets. I see a dog out about 200+ yds and there is a 50 mph cross wind. So, I hold about 3ft to the left of him and fire a prayer shot and it hits 4ft to the right. Yeah, wind can be a really big factor.
Iíve found my 50 and 100y zero are basically the same thing.

David
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Old 04-28-2021, 09:26 PM
squirrel1 is online now
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A 45 yard zero Bette right imo. Will keep poi at 100 real close. 50 yard zero cause round to be tad low at 100 yards.
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Old 05-03-2021, 09:32 AM
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I'm quite new to hmr but am learning fast that wind can indeed really screw around with that light bullet. I remember a friends 17Rem and how that could struggle in wind so I'm not really surprised but the elevation change thing with hmr did have me scratching my head!
I'm glad I'm not alone. I have thought I was going mad!
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Old 05-03-2021, 10:08 AM
dgeesaman

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Originally Posted by squirrel1 View Post
A 45 yard zero Bette right imo. Will keep poi at 100 real close. 50 yard zero cause round to be tad low at 100 yards.
The ballistics calculators will show this. The exact results depend on the scope ring height and velocity of the lot of 17hmr. Iíve had lot to lot velocity differences of 500fps.

David
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Old 05-03-2021, 03:33 PM
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Okay just my $0.02.
Similar boat, a pair of 1717D Classics. One was for my Uncle.
After much testing we settled on 85yd zero for hunting. Dead hold on rabbit heads all the way out to 175 yds. So that is where I am at with HMR in my two Annies.
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Old 05-03-2021, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelPig View Post
Okay just my $0.02.
Similar boat, a pair of 1717D Classics. One was for my Uncle.
After much testing we settled on 85yd zero for hunting. Dead hold on rabbit heads all the way out to 175 yds. So that is where I am at with HMR in my two Annies.
See now I can not achieve that with mine.
I think I know why!
What is often overlooked is the possibility that a barrel may not be as straight as we think it is.
Or it is not screwd into or fitted in the receiver true. Some receivers are not necessary level for the mounts in relation to the barrel and lastly we don't know where the barrel node is on firing.
Just my thoughts on why no two rifles shoot the same....maybe.
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Old 05-03-2021, 11:02 PM
tbates66
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Well, a couple of things changed since. my OP. Took my two rifles to the range with a friend who knows more about precision shooting then I do. After shooting some with both rifles at 50 and 100 yds, i decided to change scopes on one and check the action screws on the other. Accomplished both today. Replaced a Leupold 3.5-10X with a Tract 4-12X rimfire scope. The picture is much clearer now. Discovered that the action screws were loose on the other one, so tightened them with a torque wrench and I'm headed to the range tomorrow. Will zero both at 50 and see where it hits at 100 and adjust accoordingly....with Hornady 17gr and CCI TNT 17gr. I'll let you know how it goes.
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