Garrow Firearms Development 17hmr locked bolt gas operated AR upper - Page 3 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:17 PM
Frank3

Join Date: 
Feb 2015
Posts: 
592
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)


Log in to see fewer ads
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarrowDev View Post
Hey there, Frank3! This is Mike Garrow. I wanted to answer some of your questions that weren't specific to Jesse or Eric. Here goes nothin'!

1.) We’ve run 16-22” barrels and the 18” provided the best velocity and the lowest standard deviation with most ammo. Any change in barrel length will most likely require a larger gas port. You can, in fact, replace the gas block with an adjustable one to fine-tune it. However, the barrel is measured from the breach and inside the receiver about 1.5”, so it appears similar to a 16” barrel.

2.) It’s a standard, low-profile gas block located closer to the breach than on a pistol.

3.) The gas block is not adjustable because it is set up to run only the 17HMR ammo.

4.) Yes, any charging handle will work. I happen to be a lefty, myself, so this was important to me

5.) We run a mil-spec trigger, tested Geissele triggers, and the only issue we had was with Velocity triggers being on the inconsistent side. The owner of the company recommends using their steel-case trigger. We haven’t tested every trigger on the market, but there’s no reason not to use aftermarket.

Also, the bolt is designed much like the AR15 where it prevents the firing pin from hitting the cartridge unless it is locked in battery, preventing out-of-battery discharges.
Mike:

Thanks for the info:

I forgot about the 1.5" recess (just like a 22lr upper).


Just a few questions.

1. Suppression wiithout an adjustable gas block?

Is that going to pose a problem with the cyclic rate, lock time, buffer weights etc....

I plan on getting one of these (saving pennies and looking where I can sell stuff off) but I would use it almost 100% suppressed.

Is there going to be a problem with that?

2. Any issues with ruptured cases or anything of that nature (I am assuming the locked bolt solves those issues).

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-12-2017, 05:16 PM
Arizona22shooter's Avatar
Arizona22shooter
Appleseed Rifleman

Join Date: 
Aug 2016
Location: 
Arizona
Posts: 
146
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank3 View Post
Mike:

Thanks for the info:

I forgot about the 1.5" recess (just like a 22lr upper).


Just a few questions.
1. Suppression wiithout an adjustable gas block?

Is that going to pose a problem with the cyclic rate, lock time, buffer weights etc....

I plan on getting one of these (saving pennies and looking where I can sell stuff off) but I would use it almost 100% suppressed.

Is there going to be a problem with that?

2. Any issues with ruptured cases or anything of that nature (I am assuming the locked bolt solves those issues).

Thanks

It cycled better with a suppressor, ran 120 rounds suppressed through it.
By better I do mean no sluggish bolt , rimfire and gas operated actions makes for sluggish actions and interesting ejection patterns, its the round!

Now this isnt 100% however, ive found suppressors tend to even that out with handguns and AR type rimfire actions, obviously this is not scientific, however, while the rifle didnt like 20 grn CCI plated soft nose rounds; with supressor they ran flawlessly through 3 magazine's - and I saw no appreciable variation in poa with 17 grn vmax and otm rounds.

I did not put this information in the review, with recent events do not want labels being tossed about due to others irrational ideologies - i plan on using it suppressed most of the time (Sparrow)


Additionally zero ruptured cases, though 17hmr is not a strong cased round, and so it is likely to eventually see this occur, I am at this point sticking with winchester and cci ammunition, im not one to chance a solid firearm over .02 difference in round cost (I doubt any rupture would faze this as it is very solidly made, far more so than most bolt guns)

Last edited by Arizona22shooter; 10-12-2017 at 05:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-12-2017, 05:28 PM
Arizona22shooter's Avatar
Arizona22shooter
Appleseed Rifleman

Join Date: 
Aug 2016
Location: 
Arizona
Posts: 
146
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarrowDev View Post
Exactly, Fourbore.

It's a practical setup and meant to be a workhorse, rather than a showpiece. Since everyone has different tastes in forends, they can swap it out for what they want to use. As for 22 mags... It would certainly require more than just a different barrel. However, the more hype I get from customers for it, the more I'll be enticed to make that my next big product. I do have more than a few things in mind for the near future, so you'll have to stay tuned!

-Mike Garrow
And now im hooked, haha id lay out more money for 22lr or 22wmr uppers from your machines!

Last edited by Arizona22shooter; 10-13-2017 at 11:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-13-2017, 11:36 AM
GarrowDev
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
Oceanside, CA
Posts: 
14
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank3 View Post
Mike:

Thanks for the info:

I forgot about the 1.5" recess (just like a 22lr upper).


Just a few questions.

1. Suppression wiithout an adjustable gas block?

Is that going to pose a problem with the cyclic rate, lock time, buffer weights etc....

I plan on getting one of these (saving pennies and looking where I can sell stuff off) but I would use it almost 100% suppressed.

Is there going to be a problem with that?

2. Any issues with ruptured cases or anything of that nature (I am assuming the locked bolt solves those issues).

Thanks
Alright Frank3, let's see!

1.) The gas block is standard size, so you can easily swap it out for an adjustable one. In my experience, we haven't had any (and none of our customers) have had any issues with suppression, but that's not to say that all have been tried. If you do have an issue, I would certainly recommend an adjustable block.

2.) The bolt is designed to prevent the firing pin from hitting the cartridge unless locked into battery and we use specially-designed reamers during the manufacturing process to reduce the probability of split necks. The difficulty of this is that we can reduce the likelihood of splits as much as possible, but the fact that the 17hmr cartridges are produced by the millions each day on high-speed equipment lends to greater variances in the rounds themselves than any upper can make up for. During R&D (and just for fun sometimes), we had less than 1% split when we were running 1k rounds in 2 hours. But that was running it hot and fast as we could pull the trigger (and reloading magazines during each ceasefire). Of course, I would highly NOT recommend this as it is part of destructive testing
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-18-2017, 03:24 PM
cebiNg's Avatar
cebiNg
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2017
Posts: 
13
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I definitely like where this design is going, especially the accuracy. It's nice to see the dev here on the boards interacting with interested parties. I also like that the magazines can be had through black dog, I have a bunch for my 22 LR upper.

Mike, is the upper receiver specific for the bolt design? Or is it just an alternative to the standard milspec offering we see on centerfire variants? In other words, could one use any ol milspec upper receiever if it suites thier fancy?

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-19-2017, 11:43 AM
GarrowDev
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
Oceanside, CA
Posts: 
14
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebiNg View Post
I definitely like where this design is going, especially the accuracy. It's nice to see the dev here on the boards interacting with interested parties. I also like that the magazines can be had through black dog, I have a bunch for my 22 LR upper.

Mike, is the upper receiver specific for the bolt design? Or is it just an alternative to the standard milspec offering we see on centerfire variants? In other words, could one use any ol milspec upper receiever if it suites thier fancy?

Chris
Hey Chris!

The receiver is 100% designed specifically for this system in order to utilize gas pressures and not have issues cycling. One major adaptation is that it utilizes roller lockers, so those little guys are not going to fit in any standard milspec uppers (or anything else), sorry to say. We make them out of billet now, but I still have some M4 forgings from a Police order made, if you like the look of that better. I get the feeling that aesthetics are the main concern behind the question . I'm right there with ya! It's not an easy choice to make for me either since everyone's tastes vary, but in order to keep the price point where it's at, I have to make some sacrifices on looks and not performance or safety. I do get pictures from customers that paint their receiver and they look a complete rifle right off the shelf. What's your style like?

- Mike Garrow
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-19-2017, 11:17 PM
cebiNg's Avatar
cebiNg
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2017
Posts: 
13
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarrowDev View Post
Hey Chris!

The receiver is 100% designed specifically for this system in order to utilize gas pressures and not have issues cycling. One major adaptation is that it utilizes roller lockers, so those little guys are not going to fit in any standard milspec uppers (or anything else), sorry to say. We make them out of billet now, but I still have some M4 forgings from a Police order made, if you like the look of that better. I get the feeling that aesthetics are the main concern behind the question . I'm right there with ya! It's not an easy choice to make for me either since everyone's tastes vary, but in order to keep the price point where it's at, I have to make some sacrifices on looks and not performance or safety. I do get pictures from customers that paint their receiver and they look a complete rifle right off the shelf. What's your style like?

- Mike Garrow
Thanks for the info Mike! I enjoy learning the development process that surrounds these unique uppers. I find myself constantly reading about this stuff. I figured you had a good reason to choose the upper that you did, it's just a different design than what I have seen before, so I thought i'd ask the pro. Yes, I've always enjoyed the look of the standard receivers, but I enjoy function even more. I imagine it is a juggle trying to bring something to the market that works and keeps the price point down. Yours seems to be spot on, I like what I've read and seen so far. There are some other variants out there that are not cost effective by any stretch of the imagination. When it comes to style, if I have the choice, I always lean towards the M4 receiver and a quad rail. I know I know, quads are becoming outdated, I guess I just like the ruggedness of them. I have a few uppers that vary from key mod to cylinder hand guards, so I've used a fair amount of the offerings. Thanks again for the insight!

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-20-2017, 09:08 PM
vlcakc

Join Date: 
May 2014
Posts: 
70
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Upper Lead Time

Emailed Garrow to ask if the 17 HMR uppers were stock items or if there is a wait time. No response so far. Anybody with recent order experience? Vic
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:21 AM
GarrowDev
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
Oceanside, CA
Posts: 
14
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlcakc View Post
Emailed Garrow to ask if the 17 HMR uppers were stock items or if there is a wait time. No response so far. Anybody with recent order experience? Vic
Good Morning, Vic.

Sorry about the wait, we're on the West Coast and it's 8am here. We do have some in stock and you can find it at https://garrowdev.com/

As far as reviews and comments on the uppers go, this blog is good, as well as Jesse Mathewson's professional experiences with it on his site:
https://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/g...roduct-review/

There's also an overview of the product in its entirety at:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...t-17-hmr-ar15/

Let me know if you have any more questions!

-Mike Garrow
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:31 AM
GarrowDev
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
Oceanside, CA
Posts: 
14
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebiNg View Post
Thanks for the info Mike! I enjoy learning the development process that surrounds these unique uppers. I find myself constantly reading about this stuff. I figured you had a good reason to choose the upper that you did, it's just a different design than what I have seen before, so I thought i'd ask the pro. Yes, I've always enjoyed the look of the standard receivers, but I enjoy function even more. I imagine it is a juggle trying to bring something to the market that works and keeps the price point down. Yours seems to be spot on, I like what I've read and seen so far. There are some other variants out there that are not cost effective by any stretch of the imagination. When it comes to style, if I have the choice, I always lean towards the M4 receiver and a quad rail. I know I know, quads are becoming outdated, I guess I just like the ruggedness of them. I have a few uppers that vary from key mod to cylinder hand guards, so I've used a fair amount of the offerings. Thanks again for the insight!

Chris
You're very welcome Chirs! If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. Oh, and if you'd like to order one with the M4 upper, give me call or shoot me an email (both can be found at the bottom of the website since blogs don't let you post either).

https://garrowdev.com/

-Mike G.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 10-21-2017, 02:01 PM
Arizona22shooter's Avatar
Arizona22shooter
Appleseed Rifleman

Join Date: 
Aug 2016
Location: 
Arizona
Posts: 
146
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Make sure to give them 48 hr response time, small business, and currently they have them in stock and available to ship!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-22-2017, 12:27 AM
vlcakc

Join Date: 
May 2014
Posts: 
70
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Darrow Lead Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizona22shooter View Post
Make sure to give them 48 hr response time, small business, and currently they have them in stock and available to ship!
Placed the order this morning and was notified that the upper was shipped this afternoon! That's fast! Thanks, Vic
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-22-2017, 06:32 AM
Arizona22shooter's Avatar
Arizona22shooter
Appleseed Rifleman

Join Date: 
Aug 2016
Location: 
Arizona
Posts: 
146
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlcakc View Post
Placed the order this morning and was notified that the upper was shipped this afternoon! That's fast! Thanks, Vic

Be sure to post pictures (and of groups!) Haha

And please let me and others know regarding which ammos it prefers, id like to know that mine is maybe a fluke regarding cci green- and the 20grn - remember run it wet, clean well every 300-500 and you will love it! I use a snake on range and in field, and copper cleaner for bore when home.


Haha here i am antsy for you!
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-22-2017, 09:21 PM
GarrowDev
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
Oceanside, CA
Posts: 
14
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlcakc View Post
Placed the order this morning and was notified that the upper was shipped this afternoon! That's fast! Thanks, Vic
Perks of being a small company (for now)
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-24-2017, 04:24 PM
AP2020's Avatar
AP2020
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
Ohio
Posts: 
60
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Thank you Mike for sending one out for a review. This will be the 1st installment video of many more to come!

Video > https://youtu.be/w33JrppBg_o
__________________
https://www.youtube.com/user/ArchersParadox2020
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:33 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x