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  #31  
Old 05-04-2021, 07:12 AM
LDBennett
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All this magazine lip adjustment is caused by poor control of the cartridge during loading and in particular because of the totally inadequate so called feed ramp that is unlike most other 22LR guns on the market. But it is what it is so lip adjustment are paramount to getting these great guns to feed ammo. Since the "feed ramp" in the frame fails in accurately feeding ammo it is in my mind "virtually " no ramp at all. But what do I know.

Based on info from successful Hi Std shooters here who have bought Alan Aronstein's latest magazines, few buyers have had problems with mag lips. Alan obviously has ir all figured out. So avoid mag lip tuning and just buy new mags from Alan if bending lips back and forth (seemingly endlessly) is not your bag.

LDBennett
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  #32  
Old 05-05-2021, 04:28 PM
MikeMyers

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Originally Posted by LDBennett View Post
All this magazine lip adjustment is caused by poor control of the cartridge during loading and..........
Yes, Alan's new magazines seem to work perfectly. Makes shooting much more enjoyable. But I'd like to know what you mean by "poor control of the cartridge during loading". I just push the rounds in, like I would do with any other magazine. What am I missing?
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  #33  
Old 05-05-2021, 05:26 PM
MikeMyers

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Originally Posted by hamden View Post
Mike
Do not dispose of any old mags that have the numbers 5 and 10 on one side for a round count. Most of those mags will have a pastel green follower. Some will have a white follower.
For the past hour, I have been comparing magazines, testing both with "dummy rounds" and "snap caps", and measuring the feed lips. I can't find a big difference between one of Alan's new magazines, and the OEM magazine from Roddy.

BUT - when I put them side by side, for two of Alan's magazines, looking at the spring, the "outer" part of the spring as I look in through the slot shows the coils "horizontal", while the OEM magazine from Roddy has the coils higher at the rear than at the front.

Did HS change how the springs are installed, or is my Victor magazine spring installed incorrectly?

Is there a video that shows how to install the springs?


Added later - the nylon follower above the spring on Alan's mags is controlled, while the same part on Roddy's mags flops up and down loosely.
On Roddy's magazines, the front of the 'follower" is much higher than on Alan's magazine.
Maybe this is why the rounds are loading too high, and not going into the chamber?

Last edited by MikeMyers; 05-05-2021 at 05:34 PM.
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  #34  
Old 05-05-2021, 10:37 PM
FuzzyVision

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Originally Posted by MikeMyers View Post
... But I'd like to know what you mean by "poor control of the cartridge during loading". I just push the rounds in, like I would do with any other magazine. What am I missing?
I'm pretty sure LD doesn't mean "you" have poor control when loading the magazine, but rather that the magazine has poor control when loading the cartridge into the chamber.
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  #35  
Old 05-05-2021, 11:03 PM
MikeMyers

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Aha! Makes sense, and personally, the way those Victor magazines (don't) grip the next round, I suspect they have no control - just toss it out there and hope to find the hole.

When I look at the magazine springs through the "notch", the outer coils closest to me are "horizontal". With the magazines from Roddy, they are at an angle. I suspect that is because the springs are 180 degrees "wrong" in one or the other.

Do we have an article here on how to properly clean and re-assemble HS magazines? Doing an online search was a waste. Of my three non-factory magazines, two have the spring one way, and one has the spring rotated 180 degrees. I guess I need to take a photo.
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  #36  
Old 05-06-2021, 11:13 PM
hamden
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I am going to give up on you guys if you don't try my advice about the mag front lips.
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  #37  
Old 05-07-2021, 06:15 AM
MikeMyers

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Originally Posted by hamden View Post
My coach adjusted mags for me 50 years ago. They still work great. Coach learned from Joe Benner. Ease the front lips inward to hold the case like in the picture. Make it hold the cartridge very lightly with the follower pressing up. Just a little bump, and it pops out. CT mags are best because the front lips are taller
Don't bend the rear lips down any more than parallel with the frame rails. You don't want the case rim to move down on the face of the slide as it moves forward.
And keep the face of the slide clean




Several years ago Larry told me the same thing about 208 mag front lips needing a little squeeze on the round

I tried many times to treat KKK mags and early Houston mags with this squeeze. Failed every time. (I only have original HS pistols) I put a Houston mag out at 25 yards and put a shot into it on the first try.

I'm very confused by this. When I look at the new magazines I'm buying from Alan for the X-Series, the front lips just go straight up - they don't get close to the round. The spacing between them just measured 0.229" and 0.231" for another. All together, I have four, with two more on the way I hope to use with my Victor.


That leaves me with four magazines I got from Roddy (only one of which has the "5" and "10" stamped on it, with large numbers. I need to compare the other three with the photo posted recently, to see if I can confirm what they are, but if they're aftermarket, I won't use them any more.

I ordered the magazine tool from Alan, and should have it in a few days. I'll use one of the "scrap" magazines to test it on, and them I'm free to adjust the "Feed Lips" as shown in the drawing you posted. I *know* they are too wide, and they don't control the round - it easily pivots upwards.

Regarding the front lips, it seems to me they are in the best position to control the height of the front of the round, but all of the front lips on my old magazines point straight upward, and don't seem to do anything.

So, I'll take one of my "extra" mags, and "Ease the front lips inward to hold the case like in the picture. Make it hold the cartridge very lightly with the follower pressing up. Just a little bump, and it pops out."

You wrote something that I don't yet understand: "And keep the face of the slide clean". I'm not sure what you mean, unless you mean the polished "ramp" on the frame that I always clean.

(Alan feels my old magazines, non factory, should be put in a box and never used, as they won't hold their adjustment. For me, for this test, it's irrelevant. I know they are nothing like what you describe now, and "logically" your suggestion should be more effective than adjusting the feed lips, as the front lips look like they can better control the front of the round. If the "fix" doesn't last, that's no big deal, as I expect to be using OEM magazines.)
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  #38  
Old 05-07-2021, 06:29 AM
MikeMyers

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Added later....

The drawing posted up above shows the "kicker lips" having an spacing of .230 on new magazines, which matches the magazines I just got from Alan.

The article then says "The kicker lips serve to control the lateral alignment of the round. They should be just wide enough apart so that the round can fit in between them with little or no rubbing." .....well, again, it sounds perfectly logical to do what you suggest, and bend them inwards as this article suggests. Otherwise, they don't do anything. It seems logical to control the height of the front of the round by using the kicker lips (up front) than the feed lips.

Again, I will try what you suggest - no reason not to. But I can't do anything until my new tool arrives.

One last question though - why does the front of the top round rise up like it does, to begin with? It's either resting on the nylon "follower", or it's resting on the round below it. All I can think is that the inertia of the round being pushed upwards as a round is fired, opening up a space behind it, allows the next round to "try" to move upwards, and since we are controlling the rear of the round, the front just moves up as far as it can, with nothing preventing it other than the feed lips at the back of the round. If I'm right, the kicker lips just need to prevent this inertia from allowing the round to point upwards........ .....which I think is the point of what you wrote, to prevent that.

Last edited by MikeMyers; 05-07-2021 at 06:33 AM.
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  #39  
Old 05-07-2021, 03:43 PM
mr alexander
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Problems with rounds failing to load into the chamber, Victor

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMyers View Post

You wrote something that I don't yet understand: "And keep the face of the slide clean". I'm not sure what you mean, unless you mean the polished "ramp" on the frame that I always clean.
MikeMyers,

It's always good to keep the polished ramp on the frame clean. But, it also helps to keep the front face of the slide clean as well. This surface is the one that pushes live rounds forward off of the magazine for feeding purposes. Examine it closely and you will see a recess machined into it that looks like an upside down letter "U". The rim of a live round gets seated into that recess. I use a round, wooden toothpick to remove any residue that may be present there. While at it, occasionally wipe off the rear face of the barrel, too. A heavy accumulation of shooting residue on any of the areas mentioned can cause all sorts of issues. A swipe with a "Q-Tip" lightly moistened with solvent, followed by a pass with a dry one does wonders.
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  #40  
Old 05-07-2021, 06:21 PM
FuzzyVision

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Originally Posted by mr alexander View Post
MikeMyers,

It's always good to keep the polished ramp on the frame clean. But, it also helps to keep the front face of the slide clean as well. This surface is the one that pushes live rounds forward off of the magazine for feeding purposes. Examine it closely and you will see a recess machined into it that looks like an upside down letter "U". The rim of a live round gets seated into that recess. I use a round, wooden toothpick to remove any residue that may be present there. While at it, occasionally wipe off the rear face of the barrel, too. A heavy accumulation of shooting residue on any of the areas mentioned can cause all sorts of issues. A swipe with a "Q-Tip" lightly moistened with solvent, followed by a pass with a dry one does wonders.
^^ this is the truth. I fought reliability issues shooting my 103 in bullseye matches. Here's where I've ended up:

1. Keep chamber scrupulously clean.

2. Keep the feed ramp portion of the mag well scrupulously clean.

3. Keep the magazines scrupulously clean.

4. Keep everything else scrupulously clean.

I also was battling a batch of overly waxy CCI SV, which as undermining my effort to keep things scrupulously clean. In cold weather especially it was causing terrible problems. Now I prep all the ammo I intend to use for a match by wiping each cartridge with a cotton rag lightly moistened with CLP to remove excess wax from the projectile, and to deposit a thin layer of light lubrication on the case. This, along with keeping the gun itself clean, has resolved nearly all of the alibis I was experiencing. The only issue I have now are due to an occasional round just simply not going bang- even with multiple strong firing pin strikes. So I believe that's down to quality control issues with the CCI.

I'd probably be using some other ammo in the matches at this point, if it weren't for the current supply challenges. I'll have to suffer through the rest of this case of overly waxed CCI that gives me a FTF at the rate of about 1 per 150 rounds.

Hopefully things will loosen up in the not too distant future, and I can look for some new ammo that achieves that sweet spot optimizing reliability, cost, and accuracy.
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  #41  
Old 05-07-2021, 06:21 PM
MikeMyers

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Thanks for the reply - I've already been cleaning those two areas, as a matter of fact just yesterday on the Victor and the X-Series. I saw "black stuff" on them and used patches, with a q-tip on the other side, to get rid of it - but knowing what you wrote, next time I'll be even more meticulous.

The most difficult part of cleaning is removing the barrel. On the Victor, it came out easily. On the X-Series, it took a bit more "persuasion", twisting back and forth while pulling. Someone should make a tool that simply pushes the "plunger" in all the bay, freeing both hands for removing the barrel.

A friend of mine, Tony, was at the range yesterday with his older High Standard - I think he said 107 "Duramatic". He has lots of magazines that don't work well, but he has a few he trusts. If I can adjust one of my old magazines to feed properly, I'll let him use the tool on his. Is this done by "hand", or is a vice required?

Last night I cleaned the Victor, then put it in my safe. I think I'm better off working on just one gun at a time.

Another problem is the uppermost corner of my newer magazines. The go into my X-Series easily, but that top left corner hits "something", blocking it from going up higher, and then the magazine goes forwards a small distance, and won't go any further. Alan suggested I paint that part of the magazine with Dykem, and I'll probably see exactly where the problem is. The magazine that won't go into my Victor also won't go into Tony's gun, so I guess I can't blame the Victor. If it didn't cost so much, I would send the gun to Alan. Plan "B" is to let my gunsmith figure this out.

My magazine tool should be here in the next few days so I'll try, little by little, to make the adjustment as noted in the file I downloaded.

I know I'm "wrong", as everyone says it's the "feed lips", but my gut feeling is that if the front lips are bent in so the round can't go up aiming at the moon, everything will be fine.
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  #42  
Old 05-07-2021, 06:29 PM
MikeMyers

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Originally Posted by FuzzyVision View Post
......I also was battling a batch of overly waxy CCI SV, which as undermining my effort to keep things scrupulously clean. In cold weather especially it was causing terrible problems......
I had a similar problem - I called the tech support people at CCI, and they replaced the ammo with new ammo that worked better. If you know the batch number, so much the better.

They had me ship the bad ammo back to them, and it took a good long while for testing, but they eventually replaced it.

CCI is selling ammo again direct to us:
https://www.cci-ammunition.com/rimfi...city/6-35.html

Call early in the morning, before the day's supply is used up. I ordered one 'brick' to see how well this works. The price isn't great, but it's not horrible either, and I'd rather support CCI then some trying to rip me off on gun broker....
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  #43  
Old 05-11-2021, 01:59 PM
MikeMyers

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Quick question - are all HS barrels essentially the same?

Can I take a barrel assembly off my 103, and drop it into my Victor or X-Series? I bought a barrel from Alan for my Model 103, which is stamped "Victor". I added a sight mount to it. Would this barrel drop into, and work on, any of my three HS guns?

The goal is to isolate a problem. The most likely cause of my issues is the magazines, most likely the magazine lips. I suppose the barrel is another variable. Then there's ammo.... and so on.
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  #44  
Old 05-11-2021, 05:33 PM
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Barrels

The Series 102 through Series 108 and the later clones have the capability to interchange barrels. Most of the time that works fine as far as functioning. Of course, there is a difference in sights between the various styles of barrels. A Victor or Trophy barrel with an optical sight will work on a Sport King, for example. However a Sport King barrel on a Citation will not have the sights at the correct height to work well. The front sight would be too low.
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  #45  
Old 05-11-2021, 06:53 PM
MikeMyers

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Thanks, I posted about that gun in my first post here, back in 2015:
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...ight=mikemyers

Turns out it started out as a "a nickel plated series 103 Sport King". I guess I can post a new photo of it - had a huge red dot sight that took two batteries. As long as I had it out, I cleaned it again today, and looked it over. The "slant grip" makes it very different to hold.

I just took a new photo:
http://www.sgrid.com/2021/IMG_4315.jpg


Maybe I'll bring it with me tomorrow, but the main goal is to see if the brand new magazines work in the freshly cleaned and lubed X-Series.
(Assuming Florida doesn't run out of gasoline....)

Last edited by MikeMyers; 05-11-2021 at 06:55 PM.
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