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  #1  
Old 04-24-2021, 10:05 AM
MikeMyers

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Problems with rounds failing to load into the chamber, Victor



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A few years ago I purchased a rebuilt Victor from Roddy Toyota, with both iron sights and optics. It worked fine. I put it away for two years, while doing other things, and not shooting at all for almost a year thanks to the virus.

I took it to the range several days ago, and I had a problem. Every few rounds, it jammed. The round ended up pointed upwards, jammed into the top of the chamber opening. The end of the bullet got chopped up, and the case sometimes got bent near the bottom as the gun tried to force the round into the chamber.

I had two magazines, and while it happened the most with my #1 magazine, it still happened (but less often) with the #2 magazine.

The gun was thoroughly cleaned and lubricated, especially the chamber.

The only thing that sounds logical to me, is that the rounds are not aimed correctly when they come out of the magazine.

Three photos attached, view from left side of gun, from right side, and the gun.







I have no idea why they don't show up in the post, but they can be found at:
http://www.sgrid.com/2021/IMG_4186.JPG
http://www.sgrid.com/2021/IMG_4187.JPG
http://www.sgrid.com/2021/IMG_4183.JPG

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong in posting an image? I click on the tool to insert images, and paste the URL into the box.....

Last edited by MikeMyers; 04-24-2021 at 10:20 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2021, 11:16 AM
mr alexander
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Problems with rounds failing to load into the chamber, Victor

MikeMyers,

Your magazines need to have their feed lips adjusted. For instructions

on how to do this, click on: https://histandard.info/Jim_Barta/hsclip.pdf.

Are the same brand of cartridges being used now as were in the past?

All sorts of dimensional differences do exist in the .22LR ammunition that

is available from the various makers. This can account for why one brand

feeds reliably while another, similar one does not. I believe this to be the

case with High Standards as these pistols do not have a feed ramp which

is integral with the barrel. Pistols having this feature, such as a Model 41,

are more forgiving with regard to feeding reliability when differing ammo

brands are being used.
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2021, 11:36 AM
MikeMyers

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Thank you - will check that link now.

It was two years ago, so I may be confused, but back then I was shooting CCI and the Eley. I'm pretty sure I had switched to Eley, as the CCI was defective.

I'll try my newer CCI - that may fix it.

Alan Aronstein told me he has figured out how to adjust magazines when they come with the guns as new, so they work perfectly. I guess I can call him and ask if he can adjust them for me - but first I'll read the link you posted.

Depends on how hard or easy it is - and I do have a second set of magazines that came from Roddy along with the gun - I will try those before I do anything else.

That's a week away though, as I'm going to spend a week with my brother. There isn't really any rush, and now that I've got the X-Series, I don't really NEED the Victor for shooting.
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Old 04-24-2021, 11:48 AM
MikeMyers

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Please respond to the email I just sent you - I'm sure the link you sent is my problem.
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Old 04-24-2021, 12:02 PM
MikeMyers

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Deleted this post - I didn't understand about looking at the FEED LIPS, and that those were the lips at the REAR.

Last edited by MikeMyers; 04-24-2021 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 04-24-2021, 12:15 PM
MikeMyers

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Edit:

I was wrong. The place you guys are talking about is the leading edge of the FEED LIPS. On all four of Roddy's magazines, that front edge does NOT touch the round.

On the magazines Alan sent me for my X-Series, the leading edge of the FEED LIPS *is* touching the round, so it sits properly angled in the magazine

I'm slow to pick up on things, but I think it all makes sense now.




Now that I know where to look, it's obvious.

THANK YOU ALL for the help!!

Last edited by MikeMyers; 04-24-2021 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 04-24-2021, 06:35 PM
MikeMyers

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Alan Aronstein sent me a message:

"From the color of the follower, it appears that those are Triple K magazines. They will NEVER hold their adjustment ! "


Any posts here on what magazines have been used on the Victor in the past, which to buy, and which to avoid?

I sent Alan three photos of the two different style of magazines I have. I've got two each. Maybe the other set are the "good ones".

If the magazines I am using now won't hold their adjustment, that explains why the worked when I got them from Roddy, but no longer work properly.

http://www.sgrid.com/2021/IMG_4199.JPG
http://www.sgrid.com/2021/IMG_4200.JPG
http://www.sgrid.com/2021/IMG_4203.JPG

Last edited by MikeMyers; 04-24-2021 at 06:39 PM.
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  #8  
Old 04-24-2021, 08:29 PM
RodJ

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My original (I assume) magazines all have the dull green follower. I also got some from Alan A. and had to tweak them slightly to work in my Victor but that took maybe two minutes of very gentle, very slight adjustments. Flawless now.

I can’t vouch for the accuracy of this website (I’m new to HS pistols) but the fluorescent green look to be triple k mags.

http://hscollectorsblog.blogspot.com/2017/

Seems like Connecticut and Interarms mags are the way to go. Good luck and hope this helps.
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Old 04-24-2021, 09:24 PM
webfoot56

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Before you do anything to the magazines make sure it has a new recoil spring in it first. After you are sure it has a new recoil spring in it then you can carefully fine tune the lips of magazine. Looks to me the front of the rear lips needs to be bent inwards ever so slightly to center the round in the chamber. That is my take on this.
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Old 04-24-2021, 10:17 PM
MikeMyers

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I have four magazines, two different types, two each. All four have the same issue. Roddy Toyota set everything up two years ago, when I bought the gun, but it has been sitting for almost two years.

I agree with what you wrote - I need to bend the rear lips inwards just enough to keep the round aligned properly.

I wrote to Alan - I'll follow his advice as to what to do. Maybe buy the tool to fix them, maybe buy two new magazines, maybe use two of my four magazines from my X-Series gun in the Victor.

This bothered me at the range, before I read all this stuff here - now I understand what is happening, and why. Understanding means I can relax.

I guess I need to check the four magazines from my X-Series, and make sure they are still correct. I have no reason to think they're not.
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  #11  
Old 04-25-2021, 02:47 AM
hamden
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My coach adjusted mags for me 50 years ago. They still work great. Coach learned from Joe Benner. Ease the front lips inward to hold the case like in the picture. Make it hold the cartridge very lightly with the follower pressing up. Just a little bump, and it pops out. CT mags are best because the front lips are taller
Don't bend the rear lips down any more than parallel with the frame rails. You don't want the case rim to move down on the face of the slide as it moves forward.
And keep the face of the slide clean




Several years ago Larry told me the same thing about 208 mag front lips needing a little squeeze on the round

I tried many times to treat KKK mags and early Houston mags with this squeeze. Failed every time. (I only have original HS pistols) I put a Houston mag out at 25 yards and put a shot into it on the first try.

Last edited by hamden; 04-25-2021 at 02:49 AM.
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2021, 06:32 AM
MikeMyers

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamden View Post
......CT mags are best because the front lips are taller........208 mag front lips needing a little squeeze on the round.......KKK mags and early Houston mags ......Houston mag out at 25 yards and put a shot into it on the first try.
Is there a way to identify who made a magazine? I have two types that came with the Victor, but no idea of who made them. Is there an illustrated article somewhere, so I can match up my mags with the images, and find out what they are?

What I think I've learned so far, is that all the work is done by the Feed Lips. They prevent the round from angling upwards. As far as I can tell, my "Kicker Lips" don't touch the rounds at all. Are they also supposed to be adjusted?


I can also post photos here, front, side, and top, and maybe that's enough for people here to identify them. I haven't heard back from Roddy yet - I need to find the original notes when he sent me the gun, and maybe he wrote about the mags, and I didn't realize I needed to know that information. All together, I now have four High Standards.

Last edited by MikeMyers; 04-25-2021 at 06:35 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2021, 08:39 AM
LDBennett
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The problem with the Hi Std pistol design is that it has no feed ramp in the barrel or on the frame (there is a tiny one on the frame but it does little to control the feeding). So the magazine lips are super important to the reliable feeding of ammo. The link to the Jim Barta web page gives the nominal spacing of both sets of lips and is an excellent starting point. His other tips further help. As you can see by this, the ammo you choose can effect feeding reliability. The reason Triple K mags are not to be used is that their lips are not hardened and will not hold the adjustments over time.

The next concern is the tool you use to make these adjustment. Pliers are not the right tool and will deform and markup the lips and should not be used. The Jim Barta tool is better but better yet is the tool Alan Aronstein (interarmstx.com) sells. The main reason is that while adjusting one sideís lip, the tool does not lever against the opposite lip and screw up its adjustment. Alanís tool is made from original Hi Std production drawings from many decades ago.

A good option is to have Alan adjust his newest mags and throw away the Triple K mags. Most people who report here say that the newest mags from Alan work in their guns right out of the box or at worst with only a small lip tweak.

There is more to these adjustments than apparent reliability of feeding. If almost there with the lip adjustment, the adjustment may allow feeding but damage the soft lead bullet nose as the bullet bounces off the chamber edge. If bad enough the deformed bullet will not let the slide fully close because the cartridge will not fully seat in the chamber. You can get failures to fire or if bad enough the disconnector will not let you fire the gun with the slide out of battery (fully closed). When you think you have it right manually cycle through a full magazine without firing (at the range, obviously, with the gun pointed down range). Collect the rounds and inspect the bullet noses for damage. You should be able to get a mag lip adjustment such that only a sliding mark appears on the bullet nose. A gouge is wrong!

Once you get this mag issue corrected, you will love these guns!!

LDBennett
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  #14  
Old 04-25-2021, 09:00 AM
MikeMyers

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Just read your post - very informative.

Good thing I didn't order one of the inexpensive tools from ebay, and apparently Brownell used to have them, but no longer does. As soon as I get to be able to place the order, I'll order one from Alan.

Maybe you can tell me something ahead of time - I won't be speaking to Alan until Monday. Is Alan's new X-Series similar enough to the Victor, that the four magazines I bought two years ago along with my X-Series, should work in the Victor? Or has Alan changed the design of the X-Series gun and mags, so the mags are no longer the same as what the Victor works with?
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2021, 02:58 PM
hamden
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I am so tired of hearing there is no feed ramp in these High Standard pistols.

The bullet nose rides upwards on the magwell surface. Therefore that is a feed ramp.

Period.
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