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  #31  
Old 02-28-2020, 12:33 PM
mje
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I agree that the Daisy is the best choice for pure marksmanship practice. The cheap Asian guns donít have very good triggers, and theyíre very rough shooting. Personally, Iím a far of high end spring guns- I have two Air Arms rifles, a Theoben, and Weirauch Iíve owned for over 40 years- for the same reason I like well-made rimfire rifles.
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  #32  
Old 02-28-2020, 01:01 PM
David Valdina
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Go to the section here on RFC for more on topic.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=556810

About 70 pages follow this. Start at page one, then skip ahead or read each page. Below is post number one. Come join in.



Any interest in a short range match category ? Over in the rimfire section a few of us are thinking of an on line short-range match open to .22 rimfire at 50 feet and air rifle at 33 feet. Take a look at the thread so far.
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...6&goto=newpost

2/7/17 I received a PM:Thank you for taking the time to compile the monthly scores in the now over 40 page thread!
Can you edit your first post to add some of the basic match type info? It started out as a discussion but only on page 2 are the rules kind of firmed up, and people with a new interest might not look hard enough and skip it.

Match rules: 10 shots from a standing position, with or without slings, with iron sights or scopes, any air rifle or air pistol ok. Distance is 33 feet. The targets we use for these matches are the NRA Official 50 FT. Small Bore Rifle Target, A-17, and the U.S. Army Official 50 FT Small Bore Rifle Target, both being the same target as to size, ring spacing and number of bulls per target. One sighter bull and ten record bulls. The NRA Official 50 FT. Junior Target, TQ-1/5 which has 5 bulls can also be used. These targets for rifle and pistol and all shot standing at 33 feet.

So far there has not been any real difference between scoped and iron sight rifles, so shoot what you want. I will take the top score per shooter per rifle or pistol for the monthly compilation. First posted in time gets ahead of later posts in the event of identical scores. I do NOT know the make and model of all rifles and pistols, so if you are using a pistol, be sure to identify it as such. This is all to be very laid back and fun. We compete against ourselves with the aim, pun intended, to become better.

If I left anything out, please read ahead in the thread or post a question or send me an email. I don't always look for PM. [email protected]

Two questions came up recently and I post this February 24, 2017.

We have some folks who can not stand up. Some in a wheelchair and some can stand, but not stand and shoot. For those folks, sit. But have no further support for your body. No elbows on the table no back against a back rest.

We have people whose bullet trap will not hold the ten shot target. If you have a small bullet trap that will take the target with 5 bulls, use it. You can shoot one pellet at each and then put up a second target and have the ten shots. Or put up the target and shoot 2 shots at each and you will have your ten shots.

You can shoot inside the house. No excuses not to be shooting.
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  #33  
Old 02-29-2020, 08:04 AM
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loose hold

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Originally Posted by Discontinued View Post

1.Build quality is like a firearm, all steel and wood its not overpowered meaning less twang and more accuracy. Magnum air rifles are horribly inaccurate until youwork ou "loose hold" which is more akin to archery and also teaches bad habits when transitioning back to a centrefire!
Do you mean to say that with the HW-30 (R7) there is no need for the so-called artillery hold?

PS - Really enjoy the videos from that guy. Good information and fun to watch.
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  #34  
Old 02-29-2020, 08:57 AM
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Do you mean to say that with the HW-30 (R7) there is no need for the so-called artillery hold?
There should be less of a need because it's not moving as energetically.

Springers all have their own natural firing cycle movement. Magnums are just more exaggerated. I had an Air Arms Pro Elite for a while that shot best with a medium-firm, supportive grip. So it's not true that magnums need a loose hold. But they are more hold sensitive. An HW30 will be more forgiving no matter how its held.

I guess my opinion is you need to learn the gun, above all. I base it on what I see through the scope - if it recoils while holding point of aim, then you have the right hold for that gun.
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  #35  
Old 02-29-2020, 09:02 AM
mje
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The idea of the “artillery hold” was popularized by Tom Gaylord, and while he has a lot of airgun experience, I think the notion that springers need to be held loosely is over emphasized and not always true. I competed for a few years in Airgun Field Target, first with an HW77 and then with a TX200, and I used a pretty firm grip.

What’s more important is that you don’t rest the gun on a rigid surface. When you fire a spring gun, a shock wave moves through the gun and stock, and if it reaches some sort of discontinuity, like a stock resting on a rigid support, or a loose connection between stock and gun, you’re going to get a jump.

Some guns are just sensitive to hold in general, and require that you hold them exactly the same way every time. With them, a loose hold helps. The cheap “1200 FPS” magnum guns are particularly rough shooting in general and more sensitive to hold. But my Theoben Sirocco, a 20 ft-lb spring gun, is a smooth shooter that’s largely insensitive to hold.

Last edited by mje; 02-29-2020 at 09:24 AM.
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  #36  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bouree View Post
Do you mean to say that with the HW-30 (R7) there is no need for the so-called artillery hold?...

I shoot my R7 the same way I shoot a 10/22 offhand: it's tight against my right shoulder and my left arm is supporting the stock not far in front of the trigger and not gripping it at all. At 10 yards I can often put 5 or 10 rounds in a group you can almost cover with a quarter.** At 25 yards I'm more accurate with the R7 than with the CZ 455 American or the much-customized Ruger 10/22 I shoot rimfire silhouette matches with. *

* That's a recent and embarassing discovery. The .22's are going to have to shape up or they're going to be, uh, fired. I think part of the problem is that the R7 balances better. Its trigger is just as good or better, and the triggers on my .22's are very good.

** I'm sure there are members here who could shoot one .177" diameter hole at 10 yards, but they're not my advanced age and recovering from surgery. The point is that if you can do it, so can the R7 and it doesn't require any airgun magic handshake.

Last edited by CardPuncher; 02-29-2020 at 05:36 PM.
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  #37  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:06 PM
mje
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Originally Posted by CardPuncher View Post
I shoot my R7 the same way I shoot a 10/22 offhand: it's tight against my right shoulder and my left arm is supporting the stock not far in front of the trigger and not gripping it at all. At 10 yards I can often put 5 or 10 rounds in a group you can almost cover with a quarter. ....
The R7 is capable of far better accuracy than most .22s, thanks to a great trigger, an excellent barrel, and a well balanced piston and spring. Mine came with a factory 5 meter test target with one ragged hole. A good spring gun has a power plant thatís far more consistent than even the best target ammunition.
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  #38  
Old 02-29-2020, 02:49 PM
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We need some of these good shooters to start shooting the short range match ...
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  #39  
Old 03-01-2020, 11:49 AM
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We need some of these good shooters to start shooting the short range match ...
Might do that. I just tried it for the first time on an A17 target and shot 90/100 but I'm not going to count it. I was 30 feet from the target and now that I've read the rules realize it should have been 33.

That R7 is a great air rifle!!

BTW, right now that thread about the short-range match has exactly 1,000 replies. That's got to be some kind of milestone.

Last edited by CardPuncher; 03-01-2020 at 11:53 AM.
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  #40  
Old 03-01-2020, 02:34 PM
David Valdina
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Distance to the target ...

You will note that at least one of our shooters uses an indoor 50 foot range and reports his scores. As far as I am concerned, if you must shoot a shorter distance, work out the equivalent size target to use, post with explanation. I would rather you did that than not shoot at all. 30 feet is about 91% of 33 feet. If your photocopy machine can make that reduction, go for it. Or just post, but say the distance yoiu needed to use.
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  #41  
Old 03-05-2020, 02:25 AM
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I would agree with a number of the other posters on this thread that practicing with an airgun will assist in improving your shooting skills.

The fundamentals of accurate shooting are the same no matter what form of rifle or pistol you shoot.

Yes spring rifles do have a slightly different recoil, but, consistent handling is the key to accuracy.

Some spring rifles will be much harder to shoot well, usually these will be the stupid high velocity cheap garbage 'magnum' air rifles, but, go with sensibly powered quality rifles and they will shoot superbly.

In regard of the backyard friendliness and noise, all spring rifles will sound louder to the shooter as the action sits close to your ear, however, unless the rifle is shooting supersonic velocities (usually detrimental to accuracy anyway), if you get a trusted shooting friend to shoot your rifle and you stand a short distance from it the noise levels are apt to be dramatically lower than you would perceive as the shooter.

The other issue with noise is of course the pellet trap, a bare steel pellet catcher is going to give an annoying clank with every shot, but, either line in with something to deaden the sound or build a quiet pellet trap and this takes away that issue.

As mentioned previously the Weihrauch HW30 is a superb little rifle, it isn't overly powerful but it is, more importantly, very accurate and a pleasant rifle to shoot.

This is my example, the bottom of the four in this view, which dates from the early 1980's:


If you want a break barrel with a bit more power and still pleasingly accurate the HW95 is a nice rifle:

The above is my example that has been fitted with an after market custom stock.

Another break barrel rifle that I have been impressed with is the Remington Express, although it is made in China and badge for Remington, I am extremely impressed with how it performs given its relatively low price.

With a little gentle fettling of the action and trigger it punches well above its weight. The only other comment I would make is that when I bought it the scope mounts supplied with the package were rubbish, poor quality alloy and didn't fit the dovetails properly, however, the supplied scope was reasonable.

I replaced both as a matter of course on my rifle:


I would also agree that the FWB Mo300S is a superb rifle, the quality of the engineering is stunning. I own two examples a regular 'S' and a Running Boar model:


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  #42  
Old 03-05-2020, 06:23 AM
David Valdina
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A "sight" for old eyes ...

Rockdrill, thank you for the post & pictures. The top 4 air rifles all have the rear sight mounted on the barrel, which is needed with these. And for us seniors who have lost eye flexibility, it allows up to better use open sights.
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  #43  
Old 03-05-2020, 06:50 AM
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This is also a nice option:



Second series Webley Mk3 with Parker Hale PH17 peep sight fitted.

I also have a Beeman branded Williams peepsight at home that I am thinking of fitting onto my HW30 as it is the model that clamps to a dovetail.

Last edited by rockdrill; 03-05-2020 at 08:44 AM.
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  #44  
Old 03-05-2020, 07:11 AM
David Valdina
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Break barrel sight options.

I have two RWS Diana air rifles. Both have provisions for mounting a scope. What ever the lock up of the barrel to receiver is, it seems good enough for me to use the scope. I am unsteady enough that just so so sights work as well for me as excellent sights, at least off hand shooting. But the photo you posted makes me think that I can use the dovetail for the scope mount to put a receiver peep sight on the back of the Diana. I like peep sights a lot. Thanks. Off to the range now. I shoot the 50 yard iron sight bench matches here on RFC.
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