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Old 01-07-2020, 11:31 AM
sof
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barrel tuner questions



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I would like to add a barrel tuner to my rifle and after much checking around called Harrells and Mike Ezells sites. My main question is that I would like to use the threading on my barrel to attach the tuner. That thread is 1/2 x 28tpi and while Mike Ezell said he has an adapter, he stated it would introduce another joint or connection which can be a source of issues, so he didn't seem to recommend that route. Mr. Harrell said that I should just get a new thread protector and have it machined down to match the exact diameter of the end of my barrel, screw that on, and slide over it to the correct depth attaching it conventionally. I have been wondering what would happen if you had an extension that screwed on but was long enough to just attach to it and not overlap onto the barrel, in effect making it a screw on barrel tuner. Or, does that produce the possible issues that Mike Ezell refers to? I don't see how that would be any less secure or vibration prone than their clamping system, but would the extra length put the tuner in a less efficient location?

I have never held or even seen any tuner so I am asking this out of an abundance of ignorance. Help me out here.
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2020, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sof View Post
I have never held or even seen any tuner.
So, why do you want one?
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:04 PM
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What is your objective?

What size groups are you shooting now. 5 shots, CTC @ 50 yards ?

Are you shooting Competitively? What type?

What is your current set-up? Action? Barrel? Rest? Ammo?

You won’t see any competitive Rimfire Benchrest Shooter using a barrel that is threaded at the muzzle. Some say the machining of the threads negatively affects the internal taper of the barrel, making it less accurate.

If you have something like a CZ, with swappable barrels, it might be worth buying a new barrel ($125) with no threads and having Harrell’s bore it to fit.

I personally, would listen to what the tuner manufacturers have suggested.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sof View Post
I would like to add a barrel tuner to my rifle and after much checking around called Harrells and Mike Ezells sites. My main question is that I would like to use the threading on my barrel to attach the tuner. That thread is 1/2 x 28tpi and while Mike Ezell said he has an adapter, he stated it would introduce another joint or connection which can be a source of issues, so he didn't seem to recommend that route. Mr. Harrell said that I should just get a new thread protector and have it machined down to match the exact diameter of the end of my barrel, screw that on, and slide over it to the correct depth attaching it conventionally. I have been wondering what would happen if you had an extension that screwed on but was long enough to just attach to it and not overlap onto the barrel, in effect making it a screw on barrel tuner. Or, does that produce the possible issues that Mike Ezell refers to? I don't see how that would be any less secure or vibration prone than their clamping system, but would the extra length put the tuner in a less efficient location?

I have never held or even seen any tuner so I am asking this out of an abundance of ignorance. Help me out here.
Going the route that Harrell suggested would work as long as the tuner clamped over the joint of the thread protector and barrel.
by clamping over the joint, there is less chance it will come loose and cause secondary vibrations.
same reason if you use sun shades on your scopes to check them to see if they came loose, they can cause secondary resonating harmonics

Lee
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:03 AM
sof
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleAllen View Post
What is your objective?

What size groups are you shooting now. 5 shots, CTC @ 50 yards ?

Are you shooting Competitively? What type?

What is your current set-up? Action? Barrel? Rest? Ammo?

You won’t see any competitive Rimfire Benchrest Shooter using a barrel that is threaded at the muzzle. Some say the machining of the threads negatively affects the internal taper of the barrel, making it less accurate.

If you have something like a CZ, with swappable barrels, it might be worth buying a new barrel ($125) with no threads and having Harrell’s bore it to fit.

I personally, would listen to what the tuner manufacturers have suggested.
Right now CTC at 50 yards I am generally shooting 5 shot groups in the .3s, but most of that has been done in ammo testing and stock comparisons. As a result of those comparisons I have settled on Center X and last week bedded my stock. I have only been able to get out once since and averaged .262 for 10 groups. The rifle itself is a Vudoo action and Ace 20" barrel, and I like shooting off of a front bipod and rear bag to keep my shooting in the equation and not have it be just about the gear.

That said, I want to wring out every bit of the guns ability and reading many many threads here, on accurate shooter, and in various web reviews suggests that a barrel tuner will just enhance the accuracy. No I generally compete only with myself and not with others although I plan on going to some events and trying to learn first hand about wind doping and what it takes to become a higher level shooter. Also I love researching, tinkering with my gear and getting the best out of it. I'm 72 and have always been this way through skiing, kayaking, and motorcycles, everything. I hope that provides enough justification for my questions.

As is often the case I appreciate Lee cutting to the chase and giving an answer to my main question. Kyle that is very interesting about the non threaded barrel possibly being better and you are right, listening to the designer/manufacturers is generally the way to go. I just like to explore alternatives and know why one way is superior.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:18 AM
sof
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I just thought of this. While I can't do anything about the threading having effected the barrel unless I was to replace it, what about getting a thread protector that is smaller in diameter and clamping on further down to avoid that area altogether. Or, just not using a thread protector at all since in would be inside the tuner covered area completely.
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Old 01-08-2020, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sof View Post
I just thought of this. While I can't do anything about the threading having effected the barrel unless I was to replace it, what about getting a thread protector that is smaller in diameter and clamping on further down to avoid that area altogether. Or, just not using a thread protector at all since in would be inside the tuner covered area completely.
This is what I would do. Just know that shorter barrels are much harder to tune and may take more ammo, etc.
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:02 PM
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It sounds like you are shooting at multiple distances...a Tuner may NOT be for you. Others will disagree.

If you are not shooting Competitive Benchrest (ARA), the precision of your current set-up is outstanding.

I also have a Vudoo, Ace, J Allen. Enjoy it very much. It will Agg around 2050 on an ARA Target Indoors. That is about 200 points behind my custom BR rifles.


At $160, the tuner is still a Fun Experiment. Looking forward to reading your results.

Last edited by KyleAllen; 01-11-2020 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 01-08-2020, 04:27 PM
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Just got off the phone with Don at Harrells and ordered the parts. A different world from the the NY, NJ, eastern PA area i must say. They are boring it out to my dimension and sending it to me and said I could then send them a check. Gotta love trust don't you?

I did ask what would happen if I just took the thread protector off the end and left it like that and Don went and asked Mr. Harrell right then and there. He said no problem, but suggested I put tape around the threads to keep them from getting carboned up.

I will let you all know what happens with the groups but I'm curious as to why the distance would effect the tune. One of my big goals is to shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. Not realistic?
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Old 01-08-2020, 06:47 PM
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Distance is not a problem, if your shooting 1, but different ammo shots different at 50 or 100 so when you find your tune and ammo, that might not shoot at the different distances
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:10 PM
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If you tune a good shooting rimfire match barrel to shoot say .1'and .2's with a tuner set on say 180 setting it is gonna shoot excellent at 100yds on that same setting and ammo. That's been my findings. If it dont, it ain't the gun or ammo that is the problem.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sof View Post
Just got off the phone with Don at Harrells and ordered the parts. A different world from the the NY, NJ, eastern PA area i must say. They are boring it out to my dimension and sending it to me and said I could then send them a check. Gotta love trust don't you?

I did ask what would happen if I just took the thread protector off the end and left it like that and Don went and asked Mr. Harrell right then and there. He said no problem, but suggested I put tape around the threads to keep them from getting carboned up.

I will let you all know what happens with the groups but I'm curious as to why the distance would effect the tune. One of my big goals is to shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. Not realistic?
SOF, I wouldn't use tape on the threads, too soft of a material. use aluminum soda can material instead, you want metal to metal contact between tuner and barrel

Lee
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:18 AM
sof
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Thanks Lee
Totally respect your advice so I decided that with metal to metal being better I'm getting a thread protector sent to me with the tuner and having it turned down locally to match the barrel OD. From your previous post, I assume that it will be just as good to clamp across the seam with the tuner compared to having no contact with the thread protector at all and putting the tuner further up the barrel by 1/2 inch. If you think the no contact method would be better, I would just be a matter of having them turn the protector OD down further than the barrel OD.
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Old 01-10-2020, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sof View Post
Thanks Lee
Totally respect your advice so I decided that with metal to metal being better I'm getting a thread protector sent to me with the tuner and having it turned down locally to match the barrel OD. From your previous post, I assume that it will be just as good to clamp across the seam with the tuner compared to having no contact with the thread protector at all and putting the tuner further up the barrel by 1/2 inch. If you think the no contact method would be better, I would just be a matter of having them turn the protector OD down further than the barrel OD.
SOF, Yes I would have the tuner on the barrel and thread protector so it would clamp over the joint where they met.
for those who have used weights on tuners they can probably say what happens when they are loose when screwed onto the tuner, makes one wonder what happen to the tune

good luck with the project.

Lee
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Old 01-11-2020, 10:37 AM
sof
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Not to be a pain, but a coup;e of questions more.

If, as seems to be the case, tuners work by taming or synchronizing barrel vibrations, logic says that the barrel doesn't know how far it is to the target and as long as the ammo is the same, distance shouldn't matter. If that;s so, wouldn't it make sense to tune at a greater distance, say 100 yards instead of 50 so the effect of the tune will be easier to see? Wouldn't that make it possible to get a finer tune?

Also, within a small margin of error, is a specific tuner setting for a particular ammo repeatable. Like if you change the setting to tune to a different ammo and then go back to the original ammo, would going back to the original setting put you pretty much back in tune for that ammo?
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