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Old 12-28-2019, 10:14 PM
chetc

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stock broke



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maybe someone can shed some light what to expect..

my buddy purchased a used Anshutz 1416 from a seller, it was insured for $1000.00 it arrived at the FFL dealer from UPS, stock was it 2 pcs, he took pics and the FFL dealer took pic too, filled out a claim along with pics sent to UPS, the gun is still at the FFL dealer awaiting to hear from UPS. so this is where he stands now, has anyone ever went thru something like this, and what can he expect and how soon. hope he does not get boned. any comments

chet
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:26 AM
Camster

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UPS will try to worm out of it-say that it was improperly packed. (and between you and me, many guns are improperly packed. The bolt left in the gun (if the box gets stressed, the bolt creates a fulcrum), inadequate padding,etc. For starters, I always use a cheap hard case,if I don't have the original box))
They can be real buggers about such things.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:34 AM
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I purchased an older 1712 with a cracked stock at a discount. The stock was cracked at the wrist. I had the stock repaired and the rifle shoots really well. I did wind up buying a back up stock, which I will use if the original stock (which has really nice wood) gives up the ghost. Just something to consider/keep in your back pocket.
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:12 AM
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I agree with camster, they will try to weasel out of it. I had several guns stolen from the USPS once which were insured and they initially tried to deny my claim which was three grand. Unfortunately many people are not willing to put up a fight so they win. Tell your buddy he needs to be prepared for them to deny his claim, but he needs to be willing to not take no for an answer and put up a fight. In the end, the insurance was purchased and they are obligated to pay the claim...he may just have to fight them for it.
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:44 AM
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As Camster says "improper packaging" is their standard claim denial response. The burden of proof is on the shipper to prove otherwise and the system is definitely rigged in UPS' favor.

From my 40 years experience shipping with them daily, the only claims they consistently pay are where the package completely disappears.

Frank
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Old 12-29-2019, 12:36 PM
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Hey Chetc, I sure haven't had to make a claim against UPS, but pls keep us informed as the drama progresses so we can all learn something of value here. I would also mention that if UPS gets stubborn on this, you always have the option to sue in small claims court for that amount. The beauty of this is that you do not need an attorney and it is very easy to file a complaint, the forms being readily available. Since UPS is a corporation, they will be required to use a lawyer so what usually happens is that it never goes to trail and the corporation just settles the claim.
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Old 12-29-2019, 12:47 PM
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If it was insured through UPS Capital, they will pay. UPS regular insurance has a 30some% claim acceptance.
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Old 12-29-2019, 02:01 PM
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Chet, I hope your friend comes out a winner, but insurance companies will seize upon any opportunity to reject a claim, so it could go either way.
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Old 12-29-2019, 05:23 PM
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I have been thru this twice. Both times it was a rifle bought from a dealer. Dealer worked directly with my FFL to submit the UPS claim. The rifles were shipped eventually back to the seller.
One thing to remember is the shipper owns the insurance policy regardless of who actually paid for the insurance, the shipper is who UPS will pay if they approve the claim.
In both cases, I was refunded my money before any decision was made by UPS. So I have no information as to if UPS actually paid the claim.

Your buddy should be refunded regardless of the outcome of the claim. The seller has the responsibility to adequately package unless your buddy had some involvement in the packaging, such as declining an optional hard case etc.

Last edited by J*CF; 12-29-2019 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 12-29-2019, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
If it was insured through UPS Capital, they will pay. UPS regular insurance has a 30some% claim acceptance.
And the difference is? When shipping a package with UPS, how does one choose UPS Capital? Higher cost?

Doug
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Old 12-30-2019, 07:42 AM
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And the difference is? When shipping a package with UPS, how does one choose UPS Capital? Higher cost?

Doug
The shipper has to have a commercial UPS account and sign up for UPS Capital. UPS has about 30% claim acceptance, UPS Capital over 95% and UPS Capital does not really cost much more, the choice is a matter of information - or the lack thereof. RIA, for instance, has their own insurance since UPS Capital maxes out at $50,000.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:55 AM
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Thanks for that info. It does sound like, though, that we peons who take a package to a UPS center for shipment have but one choice -- standard UPS insurance. I always pay for insurance, but often times wonder why I do so given the chances of actually being insured.

Doug
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Old 12-30-2019, 01:42 PM
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You donít know me and I donít know you but Iíve handled my share of cargo claims. First off I donít think UPS underwrites or insures themself so there is another underwriter handling the loss and settlement. There are several elements here that are going to steer this claim. (1) you didnít package the gun or ship it so though you are the loss party you really donít have very much control here. The loss is ultimately the financial responsibility of the seller/FFL who packaged and the freight carrier. Sad to say but you are at the bottom of the list.

You need to go directly to the seller for satisfaction and if need be work a deal or return the pieces. (2) UPS does have a some liability here but itís almost never black and white. They accepted the package for shipment so they inherently agreed it was okay to go unless they can prove the shipper/seller was at fault. Think about it. Itís possible the seller packaged a broken or partially fractured stock wrist or that he had an accident moving to his FFL. Or the FFL had an accident. Itís all within the realm of possibilities and therefore something that the claims adjuster must sort out. Always photograph every box you receive if their is value inside. Close shots of corners and taping to see if somebody has the-taped the package. This is really the only physical evidence you can document at your end. Finally keep in mind this package was in the UPS system at the highest load days of the year and Iíd bet the largest % losses due to carelessness or accidents from an overloaded system with tired drivers.

Good luck
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Old 12-30-2019, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camster View Post
UPS will try to worm out of it-say that it was improperly packed.
Absolutely. I've been down that road several times over the years with UPS. With firearms and once with a steel bicycle frame. That steel frame would have had to been ran over with a truck to bend it, but UPS tried to claim it wasn't packed properly.
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:07 PM
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Please understand Iím the last guy to set here and try to make excuses for the firm that handles shipping losses for UPS but itís never as simple as saying they will blanket deny your, Oops sorry the sellerís , claim. Remember the seller shipped it so he has the contract and recourse if any. You need to light a fire under those people.

Just spitballing here but you know guns by and large are usually well insured and always carefully tracked as the Feds insist on it. What Iíd love to know are the loss and delay-re-route statistics on shipped firearms across the board, UPS,FEDEX etc. Iím just real curious just what percentage of firearms get damaged or lost compared to the rest of the freight or package load. Canít prove it but I know anti gun/hunting ramp service people at one airline in particular who deliberately mis-handle gun cases during hunting seasons. itís always possible that such behavior in this politically hot arena is behind some of this. Of course we will never know so Iím just spitballing.

Rick
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