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Old 12-29-2019, 06:32 PM
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Scope maxes out at 100m.



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Posted this in the Remington section and havenít gotten much response with the problem so I figured Iíd try it here.

So Iíve had my 541T standard barrel for many years. It shoots lights out. One of my all time favorite rifles and the first one In a safe full of rimfires I reach for when I go hunting. Itís been giving me years of trouble free service with a BSA Sweet 22 4-12x40 scope.

Fast forward to the day before yesterday, I decided to take off the inexpensive - yet trouble free - BSA, and mount it on a Chiapa M1-22 semi-auto. I bought a nice Nikon 6-18x40 AO pro staff for the 541.

I exchanged the scopes. Took the Chiapa out yesterday and dialed the BSA in for 40 meters, 50 meters, 77 meters, and 100 meters, with no problems. Those are the ranges we use for our weekly off-hand silhouette matches.

This morning it was the 541ís turn. I bore sighted and zeroíed at 40 meters then started moving up the ranges from the 40, to the 50, then the 77, but when I tried at 100 meters, the turret was maxed out. Never had that issue at such close range. Iíve had it happen when trying at 200 meters but 100 seems awfully short to max out the elevation no?

I know I can shim the rear mount but it seems like I shouldnít have to? What do you guys think? Anybody else have this issue?

Have virtually the same set up on my 541S with no issues at all. Plenty left to go at 100M. That ones wearing a Nikon Prostaff 4-16x40.
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Old 12-29-2019, 06:43 PM
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Not at all unusual to hit the limit when setting zero at 100 yards with 22LR. That specification is in the fine print for the scopes. You were probably very close before. Anyway, read those specs and it should make sense.

By the internal physics of the scope, it is easier to manufacture a 12x scope with more elevation than a 18x. And 30mm with more than a 1" tube.

There are two other options that I like better than shims. One is Burris signature rings with plastic inserts. That is a very neat solution. The other is a one piece base with something like 20 moa elevation built in. These both get a lot of mention on RFC. The shims may get you very close to maxing out and just barely work. These other two can get you setup working closer to the middle of the working range. And some margin for ammo changes. But I think easier on the scope to avoid the extreme limit of elevation. When you max out the elevation you can loose windage or stress the internal adjustment forcing the windage.
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Old 12-29-2019, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourbore View Post
Not at all unusual to hit the limit when setting zero at 100 yards with 22LR. That specification is in the fine print for the scopes. You were probably very close before. Anyway, read those specs and it should make sense.

By the internal physics of the scope, it is easier to manufacture a 12x scope with more elevation than a 18x. And 30mm with more than a 1" tube.

There are two other options that I like better than shims. One is Burris signature rings with plastic inserts. That is a very neat solution. The other is a one piece base with something like 20 moa elevation built in. These both get a lot of mention on RFC. The shims may get you very close to maxing out and just barely work. These other two can get you setup working closer to the middle of the working range. And some margin for ammo changes. But I think easier on the scope to avoid the extreme limit of elevation. When you max out the elevation you can loose windage or stress the internal adjustment forcing the windage.
Thanks, Never had it happen before at 100. Plenty at 200 but not that close.
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Old 12-29-2019, 07:51 PM
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I just bought a couple of scopes that will give me the elevation adjustment required that the Nikon is lacking. You might consider getting either the Vortex Tactical 4-14X44 that has 85 moa of adjustment or 25 mil, depending on your taste or the Bushnell Forge which I prefer that has 84 moa of adjustment but is a 3-18X50. Also consider getting a 20 or 30 moa rail or Burris signature rings.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:10 PM
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Thar shouldnt be happening. Zeroed at 40 yards the poi at 100 should only be 5 inches low, you should have plenty of room. Check the rings/ mounts thar scope is pointed up. Sometimes the slots in the mounts/rail are too skinny for the bar at the bottom of the ring , and they stand proud. So check that out , swap the rings front to back, and flip them too.
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Old 12-30-2019, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toomany22s View Post
Thar shouldnt be happening. Zeroed at 40 yards the poi at 100 should only be 5 inches low, you should have plenty of room. Check the rings/ mounts thar scope is pointed up. Sometimes the slots in the mounts/rail are too skinny for the bar at the bottom of the ring , and they stand proud. So check that out , swap the rings front to back, and flip them too.
Exactly what I was thinking. It shouldn’t be happening. Hasn’t happened on any of my other rifles including the 541S which is virtually identical. Even the cheap BSA that was on there before didn’t have any problems with the same bases and rings. I’m thinking something is up with this scope. It’s not on the dovetail, it’s on bases and rings. Can’t remember what they are, it’s been so long. But yes I was thinking burBurris rings with inserts myself would cure it. My concern however is more about why it’s happening. I just think it’s weird and am wondering if I should return the scope.

Last edited by dryfly24; 12-30-2019 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:40 AM
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My shooting with 22 std vel, when zero at 50 yards, I was 8" low at 100. Best I can recall. And having 8moa left depends on the manufacturing variation on the rifle. I had one cz, that would not zero at 50 yards. The guns are never perfectly square and parallel from top or receiver to lenght of barrel.

I did look up specs for bsa and Nikon and it 'appears' both are 35 moa. That is the same range of adjustment! So; I dont know. Toomany22 maybe right on this.

https://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/...Tabs-TechSpecs

https://www.opticsplanet.com/bsa-opt...fle-scope.html

Optics planet has what appears to be a miss print 35 yds, I assume should read 35 moa.

I will stand by what I first posted. The first step is to read the specs.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:02 AM
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It’s weird. The exact same rings and bases were used on the exact same rifle, using the BSA Sweet 22 that was on there before and it had no issues. The rings are on bases screwed directly onto the receiver - can’t remember what they are cause it’s been so long - but they’re not the dovetail type rings mounted onto the dovetail grooves.

The only difference between now and before is the type of scope. All I can think of is that I might have mixed up the top ring halves front to rear. The rear one did seat a little weird now that I think about it.

I’m gonna revisit it today, take them all apart and reseat them to see if it makes any difference, if not then I’m blaming the scope. There’s no way it should be maxing out at that distance unless it’s pointed up at a pretty steep angle. Which may be if I mixed up the rings and they didn’t seat properly. At any rate I’ll know today.

Last edited by dryfly24; 12-30-2019 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:36 AM
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You could do an experiment with the Nikon scope. That is verify the available elevation is 35 moa total.

With any gun:

1. center the scope windage. count the total clicks available and then set the windage in the middle. (it might help if the elevation is near center when you do this) Might be a little back and forth. You want to have windage out of the way.

2. Max out the elevation all the way UP and fire a small group. I suggest 50 yards with big 4 foot sheet or paper with 1" red dot pasted in the center. Move the dot if needed. You should be on paper.

3. Max out the elevation DOWN and fire another small group.

4. Measure the distance between groups.

For 35MOA the groups should be separated by 17.5 inch at 50 yards.

DONE.
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Old 12-30-2019, 12:13 PM
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I just did the mirror test. Canít even see the reticle. Scope is kaput.
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Old 12-30-2019, 12:28 PM
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I had to google "mirror test". That is the same procedure as I do counting clicks. That is too get centered. It is a start, not a test. You prefer this method. I never used it. For others like me:

https://rifleopticsworld.com/optically-center-scope/

I dont understand what is going on with your statement "not seeing cross hair". The cross hair suddenly has vanished? But; it seems you have the situation under control and also seems something has gone wrong with the scope.

It is always interesting to try and diagnose problems from afar. Sometimes it is almost like a contest. We try and help at the same time it is fun to see who can guess it right.
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Old 12-30-2019, 06:31 PM
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Your ELEVATION spec for a scope to get out to 100 yards, should be 40MOA minimum, w/o further accessories/modifications.

One might want to look at the elevation spec of the subject scope, as you might have to buy other tools to get distance.

Look at the Parallax spec too.
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Last edited by teetertotter; 12-30-2019 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:00 PM
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Is there a chance the scope tube is bent? It would not take much.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:29 PM
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Erector was bad. They exchanged it. New one worked perfectly...
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