Accuracy Improvements? - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-30-2019, 08:44 PM
GummyMonster's Avatar
GummyMonster

Join Date: 
Jan 2008
Location: 
Northwestern Alberta Canada
Posts: 
36
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Question Accuracy Improvements?



Log in to see fewer ads
Good day,
I hope this is the correct place for this, but it will be my ďUltimate ď when finished.
I have a stock, unfired 10/22 Target. Bought it and then got very ill, itís been almost 6 years but I'm finally in good enough shape to start enjoying my hobbies again.
Anyways. Iím going to do a full work over on this rifle, but Iím keeping the main parts stock ( stock looking at least). Iím in Canada, so sending it to CPC is out. I think exporting / importing a nuclear warhead would be the same difficulty.🙄🙄LOL.
Hereís my questions:
I want to cut back and re chamber. I know Randy at CPC uses a custom reamer, using various brands of ammo to test the fit. I have been told a Bentz cut chamber will work well. Are CPCís chambers close to the Bentz? Are there other / better options?
Is free floating with a rubber pad a few inches in front of the receiver best?

My other plans include:
Deburr and polish the receiver internals.
A recessed 11 degree target crown.
Properly sized extractor groove.
Iím using a Dlask custom bolt.
Volquartsen charging handle and spring.
Kidd single stage trigger.
Cleaning hole with plug ( something nice looking)
Pillar Bedding.
Chemically bonding the receiver / barrel, with a Gunsmither barrel block, if thatís needed with the epoxy job.
Power Custom scope rail and a good target scope. I havenít decided on one yet. I have a Nightforce NXS, but I think itís overkill.

Anything else I need, or am not thinking of?
Sorry for the long post, but I want to cover all my bases , so I can get into this project with as much RFC knowledge as possible.
A final question. Does anyone know of a good Canadian rimfire gunsmith? Iíve asked on a couple Canadian forums, but havenít gotten much direction. Iím mainly wanting to farm out the barrel work, hoping to DIY the rest.
Thanks so much for your time and advice,
Ken
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-30-2019, 09:44 PM
Nick7274's Avatar
Nick7274
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! GOA Member

Join Date: 
Dec 2016
Location: 
Central Ma.
Posts: 
3,084
TPC Rating: 
100% (11)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick7274 View Post
Sounds more like a "Super Stock" than an "Ultimate". Not sure of any gunsmiths in Canada who work on the 10/22, but I'm sure there are some. CPC uses his own proprietary chamber as do a lot of the better barrel makers. The "Bentz" chamber is probably the most common used in 10/22 target barrels but that doesn't necessarily make it the best. I would recommend the Kidd guide rod over the VQ just because it is the smoothest one I've ever used. Bolt and trigger work you can DIY if you feel your up to it. There's plenty of videos. Other option if you want a great trigger but want to keep the OEM look would be to go with a Kidd Trigger Job Kit. .920 barrels typically tend to do best when free floated with bedding just forward of the action screw. Tapered barrels tend to benefit from a pressure pad usually closer the the forend of the stock. Of course you will have to experiment with this. I've had .920 barrels that shoot better with a pressure pad than without, but not usually. Good luck with your build. There is a wealth of information here on the 10/22 that I'm sure can answer any other questions you may have along the way.
N
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-31-2019, 12:12 AM
crackedcornish's Avatar
crackedcornish
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2006
Posts: 
4,198
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
have you fired it for groups in it's stock form yet?

you may find it's pretty good right out of the box
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 10-31-2019, 12:18 AM
Toomany22s's Avatar
Toomany22s
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Sep 2017
Posts: 
3,963
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Rather than having your barrel cut, since you cant do cpc, first id see how good yours shoots first, some are fine. And if you think you need to improve the barrel, just buy one, Dont know what they cost in Canada but here, you can buy a GM 18 bull for $106, or a Kidd 20 inch bull for $200.

Anyways , its all a lot of fun, so enjoy yourself!

PS , i wouldn't bond the barrel and the receiver, its overkill, and swapping parts around is part of the fun.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-31-2019, 12:37 AM
cnc1951

Join Date: 
Jan 2017
Posts: 
80
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GummyMonster View Post
Good day,
I hope this is the correct place for this, but it will be my ďUltimate ď when finished.
I have a stock, unfired 10/22 Target. Bought it and then got very ill, itís been almost 6 years but I'm finally in good enough shape to start enjoying my hobbies again.
Anyways. Iím going to do a full work over on this rifle, but Iím keeping the main parts stock ( stock looking at least). Iím in Canada, so sending it to CPC is out. I think exporting / importing a nuclear warhead would be the same difficulty.🙄🙄LOL.
Hereís my questions:
I want to cut back and re chamber. I know Randy at CPC uses a custom reamer, using various brands of ammo to test the fit. I have been told a Bentz cut chamber will work well. Are CPCís chambers close to the Bentz? Are there other / better options?
Is free floating with a rubber pad a few inches in front of the receiver best?

My other plans include:
Deburr and polish the receiver internals.
A recessed 11 degree target crown.
Properly sized extractor groove.
Iím using a Dlask custom bolt.
Volquartsen charging handle and spring.
Kidd single stage trigger.
Cleaning hole with plug ( something nice looking)
Pillar Bedding.
Chemically bonding the receiver / barrel, with a Gunsmither barrel block, if thatís needed with the epoxy job.
Power Custom scope rail and a good target scope. I havenít decided on one yet. I have a Nightforce NXS, but I think itís overkill.

Anything else I need, or am not thinking of?
Sorry for the long post, but I want to cover all my bases , so I can get into this project with as much RFC knowledge as possible.
A final question. Does anyone know of a good Canadian rimfire gunsmith? Iíve asked on a couple Canadian forums, but havenít gotten much direction. Iím mainly wanting to farm out the barrel work, hoping to DIY the rest.
Thanks so much for your time and advice,
Ken
I would buy a Kidd barrel and skip the gunsmithing hassle altogether. Kidd has an accuracy guaranty. Will the guy who works on your oem barrel do the same?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-31-2019, 01:18 AM
Jammer22
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2017
Location: 
Nowhere good
Posts: 
464
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Another vote for ďshoot it first!Ē Youíll need a baseline and how will you know what works?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-31-2019, 08:33 AM
GummyMonster's Avatar
GummyMonster

Join Date: 
Jan 2008
Location: 
Northwestern Alberta Canada
Posts: 
36
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Good morning,
Thanks for the information so far. I actually have not shot it yet. I kinda assumed that the work over would improve accuracy. Iíve rarely been lucky enough to get a ďgemĒ in stock form.LOL.
What type of group size can be considered ď as good as possible ď for a stock barrel?
I donít really want to swap out the barrel, as itís hammer forged design is a big part of what drew me to this rifle.
I actually already have the internal parts listed, guess I shouldíve mentioned that. I researched each piece extensively , and purchased the brands that seemed ďbest quality ď , were available in Canada at the time ( most of these parts have been waiting for years to get assembled., and had the look I was after.
Keep the suggestions comin.
Thanks,
Ken
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-31-2019, 10:10 AM
JHB51
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jul 2012
Location: 
Indiana
Posts: 
186
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
The first thing I would do is put 1k through it first to make sure it works. Nothing like having to take everything off to send it back to the factory for them to do what should have been done when they built it.
Then start changing things one at a time. Nothing like the people that change half the parts in a gun then their first post is my gun don't work whats wrong. A lot of after market parts don't improve anything and some don't work as good as OEM they just look cool.
Enjoy your new rifle and your first trip down the rabbit hole.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-31-2019, 10:30 AM
Toomany22s's Avatar
Toomany22s
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Sep 2017
Posts: 
3,963
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
At 50 yards with low to medium quality ammo, 40 grain SV, like CCI SV, or Wolf Match , off a bench a front rest, and a rear bag 5 shot groups under the size of a quarter are expected, under the size of a nickel are good, under the size of a dime are great. At 50 yards MOA is 1/2 an inch, but you measure edge to edge and subtract off the bullet size, . 22. . I dont have a micrometer, so i use pocket change.

This makes me happy!

Yes its best to change one thing at a time, but you could save time if you put all those parts on and it worked fine, and if it didnt,take one off at a time.

Most barrels are hammer forged, they just left the dents i yours , cause it looks cool. Try the barrel first, you may get good results. Just doot bond it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg F78398E1-DAC9-4664-B114-2CB249762A8D.jpg (492.2 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by Toomany22s; 10-31-2019 at 10:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-31-2019, 01:47 PM
GummyMonster's Avatar
GummyMonster

Join Date: 
Jan 2008
Location: 
Northwestern Alberta Canada
Posts: 
36
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Question

All this information is great help.
Iím wondering why some of you say that bonding the receiver / barrel is not a good idea . From past posts on here, Iíve read that a good percentage of the top shooters are using threaded receivers, and since I canít really do that, wouldnít bonding be as good? One member on RFC mentioned using Red Loctite, and still being able to remove the barrel by applying heat. With the cleaning hole, there really wouldnít be a reason to take the barrel / receiver apart. I would do this as a final step, after any barrel work was done, and proven. Maybe Iím just going too overkill , in my quest to get the best out of my factory barrel.
A Kidd barrel up here is well over $400 all in, I would think that gunsmith work would be a fair bit less. Iíll look into the cost of the tools needed for the work I want, then Iíd have the tools for other projects, my own or other peopleís. Iím quite handy with tool work, my disability just means Iíd have to pick the right day, when my shakiness is quiet
Thanks again, especially for your patience with my long posts...
Ken
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-31-2019, 03:44 PM
DGF

Join Date: 
Dec 2016
Location: 
Ontario Canada
Posts: 
807
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
If you want to buy Kidd parts in Canada you should buy now. The only source and Kidd are splitting, so once the parts are gone they’re gone. Some of the parts won’t be or not allowed to be shipped up north
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-31-2019, 07:36 PM
Big Pete10
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Jun 2007
Posts: 
416
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by crackedcornish View Post
have you fired it for groups in it's stock form yet?

you may find it's pretty good right out of the box
I gotta agree with cracked....... Shoot it before doing any custom work. It may surprise you.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-31-2019, 08:28 PM
Jammer22
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2017
Location: 
Nowhere good
Posts: 
464
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GummyMonster View Post
All this information is great help.
I’m wondering why some of you say that bonding the receiver / barrel is not a good idea . From past posts on here, I’ve read that a good percentage of the top shooters are using threaded receivers, and since I can’t really do that, wouldn’t bonding be as good?
Ken
Ken...

You'll find that many "top" shooters spend money then justify that money later. Call Randy at CPC. He likes a threaded barrel on short barrel "hard used" rifles. Even Kidd has gone away from threaded barrels.

The trick is, make one change at a time. Shoot the rifle, minimum of 1,000 rounds. You'll find that accuracy can't be bolted on. It's the shooter, the Indian, not the arrow. Here's a helpful thread. 3/4 at 50 yards out of the box, stock carbine. Ruger has been building these rifles for 55+ years. They have spent more in barrel technology than everyone else... Combined. Trust the rifle. See what needs fixing first.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=535662
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-01-2019, 12:12 AM
DrGunner's Avatar
DrGunner
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! UotM

Moderator
Join Date: 
Jan 2012
Location: 
Somewhere in the Middle
Posts: 
10,466
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGF View Post
If you want to buy Kidd parts in Canada you should buy now. The only source and Kidd are splitting, so once the parts are gone theyíre gone. Some of the parts wonít be or not allowed to be shipped up north
Can you clarify this statement?

Iím CONFOOOOSED.

__________________
SCIENTIA EST POTENTIA
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-01-2019, 01:29 PM
Nick7274's Avatar
Nick7274
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! GOA Member

Join Date: 
Dec 2016
Location: 
Central Ma.
Posts: 
3,084
TPC Rating: 
100% (11)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GummyMonster View Post
All this information is great help.
I’m wondering why some of you say that bonding the receiver / barrel is not a good idea . From past posts on here, I’ve read that a good percentage of the top shooters are using threaded receivers, and since I can’t really do that, wouldn’t bonding be as good? One member on RFC mentioned using Red Loctite, and still being able to remove the barrel by applying heat. With the cleaning hole, there really wouldn’t be a reason to take the barrel / receiver apart. I would do this as a final step, after any barrel work was done, and proven. Maybe I’m just going too overkill , in my quest to get the best out of my factory barrel.
A Kidd barrel up here is well over $400 all in, I would think that gunsmith work would be a fair bit less. I’ll look into the cost of the tools needed for the work I want, then I’d have the tools for other projects, my own or other people’s. I’m quite handy with tool work, my disability just means I’d have to pick the right day, when my shakiness is quiet
Thanks again, especially for your patience with my long posts...
Ken
While a gunsmiths work may be less than the $400 that a Kidd barrel cost in your area it doesn't do much good if they're not offering an accuracy guarantee. At least with the Kidd barrel your guaranteed 1/2" @50 yds or less. A really good OEM barrel will consistently shoot 3/4" @50 yds (but that's pretty rare). As far as loctite on the barrel IMO it's not really necessary. Some people do use it if they have a loose fitting barrel to hold it in better. I do agree with others that you should shoot the rifle 1,000 rnds or so to see how accurate it is. I would put in the Kidd trigger first if you already have it though (it's definitely going to be WAY better than the OEM).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x