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  #106  
Old 08-09-2019, 06:27 PM
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75 yards?

That is a big house.

My longest distance would be 20 yards, and that is very limited.
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  #107  
Old 08-09-2019, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SavagePlinker View Post
S-man - hitting him in the eye with a pellet at 75 yards. I have an experiment for you. Hang a clay target from a tree limb and shoot at it with a shotgun at 75 yards. Pick any shot size you want. Let me know how many shots it took you to hit it. <img src="https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
I think he was just indicating the possibility of hitting someone at that distance (not necessarily in the eye). Run the same drill with a full man-size target and your results would probably be much better. Also 75 yds is quite a stretch for HD (unless we're talking zombie apocalypse end of the world kind of stuff).
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  #108  
Old 08-09-2019, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SailDesign View Post
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Originally Posted by Nick7274 View Post
It's alot easier with a light/laser combo
At 50 yards.....?
That little light is pretty bright. I don't really consider 50 yds a home defense distance. I know it will light up anywhere in my home that I can aim like a Christmas tree.
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  #109  
Old 08-09-2019, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SavagePlinker View Post
Well, first, it is seldom "pitch dark," especially when someone is shooting at you. Second, when it is very dark, my green laser lights up things well enough for me to identify the shooter.

S-man - hitting him in the eye with a pellet at 75 yards. I have an experiment for you. Hang a clay target from a tree limb and shoot at it with a shotgun at 75 yards. Pick any shot size you want. Let me know how many shots it took you to hit it.
If "S-man" is me, when did I mention hitting anyone at 75 yards? Merely asked about being able to tell what your laser was painting at 50 yards.....

I'm used to being called "Sails" or even "Boat-buoy" in some places that know me REALLY well.
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  #110  
Old 08-09-2019, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick7274 View Post
I think he was just indicating the possibility of hitting someone at that distance (not necessarily in the eye). Run the same drill with a full man-size target and your results would probably be much better. Also 75 yds is quite a stretch for HD (unless we're talking zombie apocalypse end of the world kind of stuff).
At 75 yards the pattern buckshot makes is about 15 feet across, and it contains from 9 to about 25 pellets. Your odds of hitting a person are not very good at all, and you should assume in my scenario that the perp will, upon seeing the flash of your first shotgun blast, quit filling your daughter's bedroom with bullets and direct a half-mag at the flash.

How many times do we hear of a house being shot up by someone in the street, 50 or more yards away? In any city it is a fairly common occurrence any more. If a homeowner thinks cowering behind the bed is the best plan of response for that, go for it. I'm going to try to give them a reason not to pull that again.

I'm not that great a pistol shot any more because my old eyes don't see the sights well. But at night, with my laser and a door jam for a rest, you don't want to be shooting at me from even ONE HUNDRED yards away. Unless, of course, you are a very good shot or just get lucky.

Shotguns at not "home defense," they are "room defense." My pistol works from 1 yard to just about any defensive distance I'd ever want to shoot at.
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  #111  
Old 08-09-2019, 09:09 PM
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I'm going to try to give them a reason not to pull that again.
************************************************** ************

As much as I agree with your wishes to be able to do that, realistically, no, you won't.
By the time you get a chance to react, even if the weapon of choice is in your hand, the perp(s) will be done shooting, and driving up the street as fast as their P-O-S car can take them.
(That's the way they operate.....heaven forbid they give someone time to throw lead back at them.....they might get shot!)
If you're lucky, you might get a glimpse of the rear end as they barrel around a corner two blocks away.

I agree that, yes, one of the best ways to stop things like you described would be a few rounds through the driver's side of the windshield, then the passenger's side, if they persisted in throwing lead around willy-nilly.

Roger
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  #112  
Old 08-09-2019, 09:22 PM
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Wow, just had to preserve this bit of logic....
... because no one in their right mind would even think of grabbing a handgun without first strapping on the holster. I don't even have a holster for the night-stand gun, or at least not one that will fit with the light attached.

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Originally Posted by flangster View Post
The kids have multiple ways out of the house (although fire was what was on our minds when we set that up), and a good sense of where to go if there's a problem here, so we have that covered.


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I was talking with a LEO about this discussion earlier this week, as we were standing at the same counter in the local sportsman's store, and while he praised the shotgun as a tool, his own go-to for home defense is apparently an AR semi-auto.
Aside from the modular design and ergonomics, one of the great things about the AR is the way it handles recoil, making it easy for anyone to handle; much easier than even the handiest of shotguns. Where it fails in contrast to handguns or.... wait for it.... my Tavor is that it is difficult to handle one handed.

If you have one, or anything similar, try holding it in one hand and pointed anywhere near on target while handing a cellphone or flashlight in the other hand, or opening a door, or flipping a light switch. Because of the way the weight is forward... all in the barrel... those things are hard to do. Compare that to a handgun or bullpup designed rifle.

Then, too, we come back to your concern about over-penetration. For what cartridges are ARs chambered? Rifle cartridges, eh? Meanwhile I have my Tavor converted to 9mm Luger.... not that it's in HD lineup.
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  #113  
Old 08-09-2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick7274 View Post
I think he was just indicating the possibility of hitting someone at that distance (not necessarily in the eye). Run the same drill with a full man-size target and your results would probably be much better. Also 75 yds is quite a stretch for HD (unless we're talking zombie apocalypse end of the world kind of stuff).
Hey Nick sir thank you for the support I was just talking about hitting some one not thinking it would happen with OO buck but if I had some #4 shot at 1 1/4 OZ the number of pellets would be around 169 and same shot weight for #6 would give me about 281 pellets and my chances of facial tag or two might be a little better. I would not count on an eye hit but anywhere around the eye would make me happy. Especially if it's WWIII and I am firing as fast as I can to tag this wonderful guy even at 75 yards...I would think it would be more like 30yards out but every story is different. I feel the OO buck would be a wasted shot any father than 30 yards or so...as far as I know it was never designed for than far out.

The worst thing would be for me to put hole through another neighbor house. I have been hit by a #6 pellet about 60 yards out...on the leg only but it caught my attention.

I hope and pray none of us here have a problem like what we are talking about.

Signalman
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  #114  
Old 08-09-2019, 11:13 PM
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It isn't rocket science, it's a shotgun!
If you want a shotgun, buy a shotgun.
An ounce of lead at close range is still an ounce of lead.
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  #115  
Old 08-10-2019, 12:54 AM
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Did you mean; This is the Shotgun Forum?
RimfireCentral.com Forums > Those Non-Rimfire Guns > Centerfire > Shotgun YUP! ~~JMJ~~
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  #116  
Old 08-10-2019, 02:00 AM
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Let's talk about training with a shotgun.

One of the things a novice always does is fumble with the shells and the gun. They are not able to load and shoot by feel let alone find the safety. I suggest a novice get some snap caps and drill with their shotgun so they can find the bolt release to load the first shell, know how the safety works and feels, understand how it feels to cycle the action to not short stroke the gun and learn to rapidly reload from a bandoleer, pocket, pouch or side saddle by feel.


Next is the live fire. I would practice with 7.5 or 8 bird shot loading and point shooting without the concentrated aiming of a rifle. Then one must learn to lead moving targets. Skeet is a fun activity and one where a riot gun can still be competitive with a wide cylinder bore. Unfortunately it's best done at a club. Trap is a much harder game to do with an open choke. That's one of the benefits of the dual barrel Mossbergs which give you a longer choked barrel that's good for trap or hunting. Cheap portable clay throwers allow trap practice anywhere it is legal to shoot.

The most irresponsible gun owners are the ones who fail to train and don't really know their weapon. These people are just as much a danger to themselves as the criminal if they decide to engage. I know a guy like this and under stress when confronting a criminal he didn't know how to work the shotgun he had so he hit the guy in the face with the barrel...dohhhhh... If the guy had pulled a gun on my friend it could have ended badly. Under stress you will react the way you train. If you don't train, you will freeze up at the worst moment.
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  #117  
Old 08-10-2019, 07:45 AM
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..
Then, too, we come back to your concern about over-penetration. For what cartridges are ARs chambered? Rifle cartridges, eh? Meanwhile I have my Tavor converted to 9mm Luger.... not that it's in HD lineup.
Yup. The LEO was describing his own set up. And for the reasons you mention, it wouldn't work as well for me.
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  #118  
Old 08-10-2019, 11:04 AM
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I have a rem 870 tactical with the ghost ring sights. Its an 18" barrel. I have it upgraded withe magpul furiture, shell carrier, and a streamlight tlr1hl. I load it with bird shot and a full choke. Its setup for strictly indoor close quarters. My longest shot would be 15' max. I want a super tight pattern and the least ammount of over penitration as possible. I have a wife and child. The rifle is still a big cannon and a bit of a hassle working corners and hallways even with a shorter barrel but its doable.

I also have a m&p 9mm ready to roll but were talking shotguns here.

Youtube has quite a few videos about hd weapons and overpenetration. How different rounds affect building materials like interior drywall walls, concrete block and the like. Helped me solidify my choice in ammo. But like everything. One size does not fit all, so figure out your needs. A shotgun is a swiss army knife, it can fit a never ending amount of rolls. Its a great weapon for hd and sporting.
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  #119  
Old 08-10-2019, 11:26 AM
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I have several choices for home defense. G23 with night sights in the night stand along with a holster, extra mags and a flashlight. That is to get to the long guns. Shotguns, AR and my Keltec Sub 2K in 40 to match the G23. The Sub 2k has a light, laser, red dot and can be 1 handed. The long gun that is most accessible is the Mossberg 410. Less collateral damage and if absolutely necessary the wife could shoot it. We will not be clearing the house. We will stay in the bedroom and wait for them to come to us or the police to arrive.
Something to consider. We have emergency lights that come on if the power goes out or it is turned off.

Last edited by JTJ; 08-10-2019 at 11:30 AM.
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  #120  
Old 08-10-2019, 11:41 AM
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I haven't fired a shotgun in a long time, don't remember what kind or gauge. I have thought about one for HD, but seems a bit of overkill?

I'd consider blast, flash, and collateral damage first. That eliminates twelve gauge. Twenty is still a lot at short range indoors. So maybe a .410.

Next is size, manueverability, and weight. So a Shockwave in .410; I'd still look at the 500 in .410, using the pistol grip.
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