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  #781  
Old 07-23-2019, 07:00 AM
jaia
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Sellier & Bellot 38 grain hollow point 22lr rated 1230 fps

455 Varmint, Lilja, Sinclair





108 fps ES, extremely visible differences in the cartridges
no surprise when all those strays showed up.
Short range hunting/plinking ammo.
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  #782  
Old 07-24-2019, 06:28 AM
jaia
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CCI 40 grain Small Game Bullet flat nose rated 1235 fps

455 Varmint, Lilja, Sinclair





ES of 37 fps is very decent for CCI.
But the cartridges still show dents, dings and sloppy drive bands.
What should have been a pretty decent group, opened up due to bullet imperfections.
When the bullets are all different, the trajectories are too.

7 inches of spread at 200 yards
2.3 inches at 100, 0.75 at 50 yards
1/4 inch at 25 yards

Last edited by jaia; 07-24-2019 at 06:41 AM.
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  #783  
Old 07-27-2019, 10:33 AM
jaia
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Attempted to shoot Winchester made Hi-V 22lr this morning.
3 different boxes, none of which would chamber in the Lilja.
All intended for use in a Sporter cut chamber.
Visible inspection showed typical lack of quality control.
Dents, dings, chips, tilted bullet seating, oh well...send them with my semiauto pistol.



Winchester Varmint HE 37 grain 22lr rated 1435 fps

Buckmark Varmint 10 inch barrel and Burris EER scope on heavy bag

Pulled out a couple for inspection...what the heck?
Pulled out some more....



Dumped the whole box



None would chamber in the 455 Lilja barrel
Almost all had that extra crimp in the middle of the brass.

Good thing the Buckmark is chambered a bit looser.
3 fail to fires that went bang on the second try.
1 would not fire, after 5 tries I gave up.

1312 fps high
1258 avg
1174 low

add another 100 fps to equal the mv of a 20 inch barrel



At least they would ping the 14 inch diameter steel with the pistol at 200 yards....most of the time.

Last edited by jaia; 07-27-2019 at 12:57 PM.
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  #784  
Old 07-27-2019, 01:02 PM
jaia
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Remington Viper 36 grain 22lr rated 1410 fps

455 Varmint, Lilja, Sinclair

Not the best looking cartridges...pretty lame actually...results not a surprise.





ooopsie, 1 case rupture, 2 ftf that went bang on the second try.

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  #785  
Old 07-28-2019, 07:17 AM
Triggershoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Sellier & Bellot 38 grain hollow point 22lr rated 1230 fps

455 Varmint, Lilja, Sinclair





108 fps ES, extremely visible differences in the cartridges
no surprise when all those strays showed up.
Short range hunting/plinking ammo.




Hey jaia, interestingly, those S&B cartridges appear to have a "dimple" in the case head, reminiscent of the old Federal UM-1 UltraMatch? Too bad it (the dimple) didn't work out too good on the S&B rounds... 108 fps ES?? Yikes
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  #786  
Old 07-28-2019, 07:40 AM
jaia
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Nope, the dimple doesn't help when so many visible defects get past quality control.
There's a heavy layer of lubricant over the bullet nose, but dents, dings and uneven drive bands
were still visible through it. Toss in the MV spread and you get all that vertical
to accompany the defect caused trajectory spread.


I've become very concientious about inspecting the cartridges before chambering.
When you see irregularities before you send them, then see the irregular results,
not difficult to make the connection between lack of ammo quality and lack of accuracy.

Last edited by jaia; 07-28-2019 at 09:51 AM.
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  #787  
Old 07-28-2019, 10:06 AM
jaia
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Winchester Super X Super Speed 37 grain CPHP rated 1330 fps

Buckmark Varmint 10 inch barrel, Burris EER Scope, heavy bag



Won't fit the Lilja match chamber, so Buckmark pistol at 200 yards.
Add 100 fps to chrony numbers for approximate results from a 20 inch barrel.



Some of that spread is my lack of skill with a pistol,
some is due to many visible cartridge defects,
some is mv spread.

4 fail to fires, all went bang on the second try.
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  #788  
Old 07-28-2019, 10:19 AM
jaia
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CCI Velocitor 40 grain CP 22lr rated 1435 fps

455 Varmint, Lilja, Sinclair




As the picture shows, visible cartridge defects.
Dents, dings, differences in bullet seating and drive bands.




That stray, way to the left, came from a dinged up round.
Visibly more dented than the previous few.
No surprise when it hit away from all the rest.
127 fps ES explains the vertical spread.

Last edited by jaia; 07-28-2019 at 10:21 AM.
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  #789  
Old 07-28-2019, 10:30 AM
jaia
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See that pile of Browning 22lr, 37 grain rated 1400 fps?
It's relabeled Winchester Varmint HE 37 grain 22lr.
The pile is the number of cartridges that wouldn't fit in a match chamber, all 50.
No surprise. I'll have to try it with the pistol, next trip to the range.

Didn't send it on this trip due to unforeseen questions from another shooter.
He couldn't believe a 22lr pistol was capable of hitting a target at 200 yards.
Set him down at the bench and let him try it with some leftover CCI AR Tactical 40 grain 22lr.
After learning to use the EER scope and the heavy bag to stabilize the barrel
he proceeded to ping the 14 inch and 10 inch steels with repeated hits.
Put a big grin on his face...what a concept....22lr at 200 yards...with a semiauto pistol.

Last edited by jaia; 07-28-2019 at 05:47 PM.
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  #790  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:16 PM
jaia
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CCI 40 grain Polymer Coated 22lr rated 1070 fps

455 Varmint, Lilja barrel, Sinclair bipod



The bullets are all dents and dings with sloppy seating
hidden by a layer of a bluish plastic coating.



Plinking ammo
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  #791  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:22 PM
jaia
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Federal Game-Shok 31 grain CPHP 22lr rated 1430 fps

455 Varmint, Lilja, Sinclair



All I had to do was look and I knew it wasn't going to be pretty.
This is cheap bulk ammo sold in a fancy tray for which there was no need.
The bullets looked to be factory seconds and thirds and maybe fourths.
I just knew this was going to be depressing....it was.

You know it's bad when the yellow tape measure has to be used.

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  #792  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:29 PM
jaia
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Federal Hunter Match 40 grain hollow point 22lr rated 1200 fps

455 Varmint, Lilja, Sinclair



A few dents and dings hidden under the lubricant
but nowhere as bad as the 31 grain cphp.

Better quality produces better results.
All it needs is a quick look to be able to see the problems.
If y'er ammo looks cr*ppy, y'er results will be cr*ppy.
This box of Federal looked decent, as do the results.
Same conditions and rifle, just better quality ammo.



ES of 33 fps, but the visible imperfections on the hollow points
causes spreading of the trajectories.

Last edited by jaia; 08-03-2019 at 07:33 PM.
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  #793  
Old 08-04-2019, 08:11 AM
jaia
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Sellier and Bellot 38 grain hollow point 22lr rated 1230 fps

455 Varmint, Lilja, Sinclair





Results on target due to poorly handled components.
All that spread could be minimized by protecting the bullets from repeated impact
during manufacture, transporting and assembly. The lubricant covers the dents and dings
but by taking a close look, can be seen using eyeball version 1.0.
I inspect all my cartridges before chambering, now that I know what to look for.

With an ES 124 fps, it'll never be anything but short range hunting/plinking ammo.

Last edited by jaia; 08-04-2019 at 08:21 AM.
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  #794  
Old 08-04-2019, 09:05 AM
David Valdina
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I would like to see a test ...

I would like to see a test. I no longer have any centerfire rifles, except a Trap Door Springfield .45-70, which would not do for the test I want. I have followed this thread from the beginning and love it and all the work that has gone into it. .22 rimfire components are blamed for the results.

Will someone with a .22 Hornet load 40 grain bullets to the same velocities as the best of the rimfire ammo and shoot for comparison please. The Hornet can be difficult to load for, but the .222 Remington is a wonderfully accurate cartridge, so maybe best to load 40 gr. bullets in that at similar velocities. And if you want to add some variety, have one set of results for cast lead bullets and one for jacketed.
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  #795  
Old 08-04-2019, 09:21 AM
jaia
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All those dents and dings, affect the aerodynamics in a big way.
Think about the dimples on a golf ball...studies show large trajectory changes
from extremely small differences in the depth of the dimples.
A spinning object covered in dents traveling 200 yards...interesting.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...es-in-golf-ba/

Try this...reach into your stash of 22lr.
Grab a couple of boxes of your favorite cartridges.
You wonder why odd strays show up on target to annoy you?
Use a magnifying glass and inspect the noses on the bullets from those 2 boxes.
Are those bullets smooth, symmetrical, identical?
Are they covered in dents, dings, defects?
Those defects cause those odd strays.

Anything that creates a depression or ridge on the nose of a bullet will cause an unpredictable shift of trajectory.
If the bullet is covered in random dents, dings, scratches, or is irregular in any way, it will spin off line.
If you see any irregularities on the nose of your bullets, you can expect unsatisfactory results.
Skill, rifle, setup can't improve accuracy, when the problem occurs after it leaves the barrel.
Cr*ppy ammo produces cr*ppy results.

Last edited by jaia; 08-04-2019 at 09:52 AM.
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