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Small caliber reloading

5K views 32 replies 15 participants last post by  Texcl2 
#1 ·
I am considering a reloading setup for 17 Hornet, and am wondering about presses. Because it’s a small case, is it easier to resize than a bigger case, say a 243? In other words, less force required from the press? After firing, I may get away with just neck sizing, right?
 
#2 ·
I don't reload the 17 hornet, but I do reload the 22K hornet, and yes they are easy to process from an effort point of view. The case walls are thin and easy to deform so take it slow and easy. If you keep the brass sorted to the rifle it came from you should only have to neck size each time, which by the way makes the brass last a lot longer as it minimizes the working of the case.

At first I annealed my cases but have since stopped since by neck sizing only my brass lasts at least 10 firings and sometimes 15.

Good luck with your efforts, the hornets are a lot of fun to shoot.
 
#4 ·
Probably should go ahead and get the full tool set for that caliber

But then, I am a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy, if you know what I mean.

You may indeed get away with only neck sizing. That would reduce some of the metal work-hardening around the cartridge shoulder. You should still check case length (maybe every other reload cycle?) and be prepared to trim. And if you start running into seating problems (binding/jamming in the chamber) you will need to resume full-length sizing.

I don't know if you can buy only one or two of the sizing dies, especially the one or two that you would need for neck sizing, but my luck would be that later when I needed the last sizing dies I would have to buy the whole set all over again.

And yes, the cranking pressure on the loading press handle should be a lot less than for a larger piece of brass like .243 or 30-06.
 
#5 ·
I loaded over 3K 22 Hornet a few years back during the course of a couple years working with reduced velo, cast bullet loads.
Even fls'ing doesnt require much of a press so any of the light duty ones will work but if you ever get into bigger stuff you would probably want something beefier. Thing is that the lighter duty press would still be useful for a lot of functions; I have several :rolleyes:, so I dont see a downside starting with a light duty simple one.
I preferred by far using the Lee Collet Die which just neck sizes. All I wanted was a smidge from fully fire-formed to the chamber to lightly hold the cast bullet. Now here's the rub....when I did load jacketed at higher end loads I needed to fls. And I found I needed to check trim-to length really every reload, those little cases stretch! The simple Lee trim spud is almost too easy, Ive got them for every caliber I mess with. Setting up and using the little case trimming 'lathes' is waayyy too much trouble.
I do not know if Lee has the 17H in a collet die, but I understand they will do some custom 'builds', and if they made one for someone else already you may not have to foot the set-up fee, they can pull it 'off the prints' (I suspect it is all cnc now).
Iirc Lee sells the 22Hornet collet die set c/w a std fls die too, that would be the ticket in 17H also, youd be set for anything to try. If you dont care about the collet die option just plan on fls those cases, trying to 'neck size' them with a backed off fls'er isnt really how it is done and the case is so easy to fls just do it and never have chambering issues.
 
#7 ·
I am considering a reloading setup for 17 Hornet, and am wondering about presses. Because it's a small case, is it easier to resize than a bigger case, say a 243? In other words, less force required from the press? After firing, I may get away with just neck sizing, right?
I've been reloading 22 hornet for decades. Yes, I partial size cases. Normally, you screw the sizing die down until it touches the shell holder. To partial size, I back the die off 2/3 of a turn. Makes my cases last longer and seems to give better accuracy by centering the case in the chamber.
17 Hornet should be a fun round to shoot.

Any press should work. Mine's the basic RCBS.
 
#8 ·
Great information, thanks to all of you. I plan on getting all the dies and fully resize all brass the first reloads, as they were shot in 2 different rifles, and I did not sort them. After that, however I expect I’ll try neck sizing only after firing in just one rifle. The Vickerman dies sound like an easier option, I’ll look into those. I hadn’t thought about handling those tiny bullets!

Also, this project will be my first steps into the world of rifle reloading, but I’ve loaded shotgun for quite a while. I’ve researched about some of the pitfalls of reloading small cartridges and the necessity of accurate powder weighing. There will be a learning curve......
 
#9 ·
Whatever die/s you end up getting for the 17 Hornady Hornet, I suggest you make sure it is a bushing die so you can control, as well as keep consistent, neck tension. Also, keep your brass segregated by Lot # because there is quite a bit of variance in the neck thickness of the 17 HH brass.

The neck thickness varies from 9 thou to 13 thou which may not seem like a lot, but depending on the FL die you're using, you'll go from having so little neck tension that you can push the bullet in and out with your fingers, to having 3-4 thou of neck tension. Such a variance in bullet neck tension will have you chasing your tail trying to get decent accuracy from your hand loads.

Except for large calibers with heavy recoil, I run 1-1.5 thou neck tension on everything.
 
#11 ·
My experience was that factory 22Hornet was pretty HOT, cant speak to the 17H. Those high end loadings, factory or my reloads, expanded the brass tight to the chamber walls and though they extracted/ejected fine the next load w/o fls were tight to chamber even into the same chamber. I backed off my reloads since I rarely needed them up there. A common rule of thumb has been back off the top load by 10% anyway and that reduces pressures by more than 10% 'they' say. Worked for me. Small cases are touchy about loads toward the top.
Btw, dont ever expect to use ammo in different guns if the brass hasnt been fls'ed.
 
#13 ·
Dobeardsley; A few thoughts

Been reloading for a few years and have used single stage, turret and "automatic" reloading machines. If you are looking at a new press, consider the turret press from one of several good makers. Buy an extra turret or two so you can set up for another caliber easily. A shell holder rack or pill holder type plastic case will let you mark the # of holder you have. I use both now, I built the shell holder rack out of 1"x4" pine with holes of 1/8" size and trimmed bronze brazing rod to hold them. I digress. A turret press will work for many calibers and allow you to add more when you are ready. The "Vickermann": style is one of many of this type. An RCBS competition seater die with the load thru window is another, Buy one seating die in your first caliber, and then just by changing the seating collet you need for the next caliber. My first was a 300 win mag, then seating sleeves in .257, 270 and .22. The seating collets are universal for any bullet of that caliber/cartridge. They work great. Also think of a Lee factory crimp die, some don't like them, but they do provide consistant neck tention. Last on my list would be the extended shell holder. It is a lengthened version of the standard shell holder found everywhere. for .22 Hornet caliber in the RCBS is was almost mandatory. I would think the same in .17 caliber if you use the Competition seating die. Go Slow on the seating step, the Hornet brass will sometimes krincle if rushed on the neck and shoulder. Take care, Randy
 
#14 ·
gcrank1 covered it pretty well. The factory loads expand the brass to what many of us think to rather excessive levels and once extracted will not rechamber without being full length resized. The 17HH case body has very little taper. There are some pictures on RFC of the swelling of factory shot brass. There's a defined step or ring where the case wall swells to meet the chamber wall. I wish either the brass was closer to chamber dimensions or the chamber tighter to prevent this.
 
#15 ·
I've measured quite a bit of 17 HH brass from multiple different guns, the ammo and or new brass, is all to SAAMI spec but the chambers in these factory guns seem to be a fair bit longer causing the brass to stretch 10-12 thou at the shoulder datum. When you see fired brass from these things some of it has what, at first glance, appear to be a bulge, but it's actually a stretched section that is a couple thou smaller in diameter then it bumps back up.

Factory chambers are generally a bit on the longer/larger size but for some reason they seem to be excessively over sized in the 17 HH.
 
#16 ·
In that 'case' I have used fully fire-formed brass and only resize to where it easliy rechambers in one gun and lock the adjustment. You will have a compromised thin spot in the case but will get far more reloads than if you conventionally full length resize and blow it back out over and over; that is a recipe for case separation. This is the virtue of reloading, you can custom produce ammo to a given chamber that is less than optimum and still get satisfaction.
 
#17 ·
“Whatever die/s you end up getting for the 17 Hornady Hornet, I suggest you make sure it is a bushing die so you can control, as well as keep consistent, neck tension. Also, keep your brass segregated by Lot # because there is quite a bit of variance in the neck thickness of the 17 HH brass.”

B23,
Do you ever turn the brass to get more uniform neck sizing? I can see how varying neck tension can be a problem for consistency. Or is the brass too thin already to shave more off?
 
#24 ·
"Whatever die/s you end up getting for the 17 Hornady Hornet, I suggest you make sure it is a bushing die so you can control, as well as keep consistent, neck tension. Also, keep your brass segregated by Lot # because there is quite a bit of variance in the neck thickness of the 17 HH brass."

B23,
Do you ever turn the brass to get more uniform neck sizing? I can see how varying neck tension can be a problem for consistency. Or is the brass too thin already to shave more off?
If you turned all of the necks down to whatever the thinnest neck is it would save you from keeping your brass in different groups based on neck thickness, but I find neck turning about as much fun as having my fingernails pulled out with a pair of rusty pliers. Not because neck turning is all that difficult, but I just hate doing it so I just keep all my brass segregated by neck thickness and swap bushings.

Technically speaking, turning all the necks to have the same thickness would likely be the most accurate approach though.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I have also just started reloading for the .17 Hornet. It has been like going back to school. LOL. While the factory ammo did OK at 100 yards, my first batch of 50 handloads shot all over the place. Nothing like a group among them. I had shot 50 rounds of factory ammo and then neck sized the cases only. Still trying to figure out what I did wrong.

It could have been the charges (which are small, comparatively, and very sensitive to a kernal of powder clinging to a funnel spout or the like). It could have been too, that neck sizing with a Wilson bushing die was not as simple a process as I had made it out to be for .222 and .223. Or I could have chosen a neck sizing bushing that was too small.

My powder of choice was AA 1680 and I have been using 20 grain bullets in a CZ 527.

I am starting again with unfired brass. I will FL size them to have uniform neck tension and then try again.

I needed: new funnel, new sizing/seating dies, new shellholder for the press, new case holder for my primer tool, new cleaning rod for the rifle, new bushing for my Hornady tool for measuring the case length to the bullet ogive, new ammo boxes and so on. I refer to this all as the "new caliber tax," which suddenly reminded me why I had sworn off new calibers last year. . . . which lasted until I saw the CZ 527 Varmint chambered in .17 Hornet. So much for internal resolve.
 
#19 ·
Keep your 17HH clean. It took me a while to figure this one out on my 527. Seemed like everytime I started testing loads each got progressively worse. It sure wasn't the recoil causing flinching. 15-20 rounds is about all I do before a patch or two.

Another thing I've noticed: Seating depth. Usually I go longer but my 17HH prefers to be factory ammo length with the Hornady 20gr.
 
#20 ·
Another thing to watch for is the weight of the brass. Mine are mixed factory loads and brass purchased new. There are two distinct weight groups in my brass. I don't recall the actual weights but mine are sorted in two groups. Accuracy did improve using only one of the two groups of brass.
 
#21 ·
With my 22Hornets I ended up using the same lot of brass, mixed lots and brands was not good.
I used only enough neck tension to securely hold the bullets.
 
#22 ·
I used to shoot a 17 Rem and have loaded some Hornet for others and the advice above is great. A couple things to consider- the 17 Hornet and 22 Hornet brass tends to be pretty thin, so turning the necks can be a touchy proposition.
Also, what I found is using forming lubricant can be tricky. Even a little bit extra on the case and especially the shoulders and you will deform the cases- even more than standard brass because of the small size and thin walls. If you're using a lube pad, barely lubricate it before use and wipe off excess if necessary before forming.
Seating bullets is a whole different story. With my big hands and fat fingers, this was the hardest part of the process and I think would lead to rounds that weren't as concentric as I would like since it was difficult to see if I started the bullet in the case straight. Small rounds demand attention to small details....


Bob
 
#23 ·
I've been reloading about 25 years on and off. I suggest you go with all RCBS. I've used other equipment and Redding is also very good. Lyman has rough threads, Lee has cheap dies that don't work all that great and Hornady is hit and miss. I don't like the dies with the sliding seating stem. Just too fiddly for me. Shell holders are mostly interchangeable but sometimes they don't work with certain things like hand priming tools if from the wrong manufacture.

I would buy the RCBS press and then you might want an automatic powder measure for most accurate measurement of those small charges but the manual uniflow measure is good down to about 2 or 3 grains of fine powder. I had a lee measure and it leaked all the time and bound up a lot too. It was cheap. Used equipment can save you a lot of money so look at your local adds. O style presses are best but C style prices are OK too if all steel. I had an old C style pacific for awhile I sold. It was a real good one but I have all green on my bench now:) Avoid aluminum presses. They wear out and get sloppy. Turret presses are OK but there is some wiggle in the head. You will need a special funnel for 17 caliber and a loading block of some sort to pour the powder charges into the case. Boat tail bullets should sit on the case when you run them into the press without any problems except from FAT FINGERS. I'm sure the 223 is easy compared with the 17 hornet.:confused:
 
#25 ·
I purchased an RCBS kit, and Redding 3 die set, but also a Vickerman seating die because of the small bullet big finger issue. Also ordered an RCBS case trimmer and a Redding cutter for 17 cal to replace the standard cutter. So far I’m learning the 17 is a sort of non standard caliber and getting stuff designed to work on “popular” calibers doesn’t always work well enough on the 17 to suit me. Still learning. Also ordered is a slightly more accurate scale (weighs to 0.05 grain instead of 0.1) that wasn’t terribly expensive ($70), and a metal funnel for 17 cal, we’ll see how that goes.

I will measure and sort the brass I’ve accumulated as suggested and see what happens there. I do have a question about experimenting with different primers than shown in the data. It appears from load data pressures listed that Winchester WSR’s seems to show the highest pressures, so they must be the “hottest”?? The Hornady data doesn’t list actual pressures, but their loads get way bigger,faster than Lyman or Accurate Powder data, and use WSR primers. The normal suggested method to assess pressure effects before it causes problems is to measure the case head before and after firing with blade calipers, so that would be my plan. Thoughts?
 
#26 ·
First off, I'll be curious to see how your metal .17 funnel works out. Seems like any metal funnel would cause even more static electricity than the plastic ones, but it will be interesting to see if this is true. If it is true, RCBS makes a nice .17 funnel that works great on these small cases.

Measuring brass with a micrometer to determine pressures is a highly dangerous method. By time you get any meaningful results you will be far beyond yield pressures of your brass and possibly your action/bolt lugs. Best to start low as usual and look for pressure signs like cratered firing pin strikes in the primer, stiff bolt lift, and generally not exceeding pressures listed in your reloading books. Even these aren't great indicators but a good amount of common sense goes a long way to keeping you safe. My experience with almost all cartridges I shoot is that I find a "sweet spot" somewhere before I get to max pressures and I work around that. Once I find that sweet spot I adjust powder charges by tenths and once that doesn't seem to make any difference I adjust bullet seating depth. In most of my rifles, about .005-.010" from touching the lands is about right but you may have to experiment a bit to find what your rifle likes....

If you're really anal like me and a few guys I know, you can deburr the flash holes with the proper tool, chamfer the inside and outside of the case mouth, clean the case mouth with a stiff case brush to get consistent bullet grip, etc..... the deburring only has to be done once on all cases BTW.

One of the best tools I ever bought was the RCBS case prep station with all the stations for these monotonous chores. Saves me time and energy so I can move along to more important anal exercises in reloading.... ;)

Bob
 
#27 · (Edited)
I don't know what kind of scale you use but I had to get a beam scale for the small powder charges that the Hornets use. Digital is great for larger stuff where a little float in the tare is acceptable, but for tiny stuff a good beam scale is a must IMO.

Primers are very touchy down in this size as well. Higher pressure doesn't always mean hotter, it's never that simple. Anyway, I use Remington 6 1/2 primers because they are specifically for smaller rifle rounds and pistol rounds. When they are not available I use CCI small pistol primers and they are almost as consistent. When you have a case this small and so little powder the primer is a much larger part of the overall picture, again IMO. Also the 6 1/2 cups are thinner so you can see overpressure easier as the cup will crater or flatten easier giving an earlier indication that you are getting near the top pressure.
 
#30 ·
Weight sorting brass is of no great value because there is no direct correlation between case volume and the actual weight of brass. Case volume is what really matters so if you truly want to be anal about sorting brass you'll measure the internal volume of every single piece of brass you have. It's a VERY time consuming process so nearly no one does it, at least in large quantities they don't.

Most bullets, by weight, are pretty consistent these days so not a lot of benefit there, but if you presort your bullets by measuring base to ogive length it can save you some time at the reloading bench and you'll end up with more consistent OAL on your ammo. Remember, base to bullet tip measurements have little affect, it's consistent base to bullet ogive length that matters.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I don’t know guys, I bought a cz 527 varmint and reload for it. I bought lee dies, I don’t sort anything don’t even trim the cases until the 3rd sizing, I throw my powder out of a meter and check it on a digital scale to make sure it’s within 1/10 +\- of a grain and use the cheapest small rifle primer I can find. This results in consistent .5” or smaller groups at 100 yards from my mechanical rest with my standard 20 grain load. I honestly think It could do better with a higher powered scope but I’m pretty happy.

I have found this caliber to be no more difficult to reload than any other caliber, I have loaded 300 .17 hornet reloads and not damaged a single case in the process. It’s actually easier to size than most calibers.

As for sizing I adjust my die so that the shoulder is not pushed back at all, this makes the cases last longer. The Hornady casings are undersized and leave a ring at the head. I don’t load max loads.

I have my own range at the house so I shoot a lot and can’t be bothered with sorting and all the extra steps. If my meter had a spout that would accept the .17 case I would probably skip the scale and just visually check the powder charges once the block of casings was filled and I would guess my accuracy would be about the same. I only toss about 1 in 25 charges and they are almost never more than 2/10 of a grain off. I’m pretty sure all factory loads are metered not weighed.

These are just my impressions from my little bit of hornet experience. My wish list includes a return of the Hornady 25gr hollow point bullets & more manufacturers of .17 hornet brass. The next time I see some cheap PPU .22 hornet brass I will convert it to .17 hornet and see how it goes.
 
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