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Winchester Wildcat magazines - Winchester Customer Svc & Wildcat Stock Finish & Fit

11K views 38 replies 15 participants last post by  hometownhero 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Winchester Wildcat magazines

I am looking at purchasing some additional 5 round mags for my Wildcat (TOZ-78) I downloaded Winchesters parts catalog and found out they are $30.00 each.:mad: But, the worst part is Winchester has designated the magazines, both 5 and 10 round versions as restricted parts. Both are designated "factory installation only, return firearm for installation" :confused:
So If I want a couple of extra mags I have to pay to ship my rifle to Winchester, have them fit the plastic magazines!!!!!:eek: :( :mad:
Has anybody else tried to purchase 5 round mags?
 
#2 ·
That is a dumb policy about the mags, I would try to talk to someone from Win customer service on the phone about this. Some fitting may be rquired. I found a dealer at the gun show with Wildcat 10rd mags for ten bucks each. My friend that also has a TOZ bought one and I bought one, but neither would lock up in his rifle so I bought his from him.
 
#3 ·
Magazine Issue

Too bad they make it like that. Make sure you write your serial number down before you send it in as I don't trust any company to get my order right until I get what I ordered to satisfaction. Haven't read any bad posts about people having the company lose their rifle...yet...

BTW, how is the Wildcat ammo? I'm using CCI because it is dirt cheap here in NY.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Well, I spoke with Winchester customer service this morning who verified that the magazines are factory installations only. Each magazine must be fit to the rifle. Thats just ridiculous, I think I will sell this rifle now before it raises my blood pressure any more than it has.
And, I was not impressed at all with the customer service rep. He didn't seem the least bit concerned with my questions and was no help at all. In addition to the magazine problem I tryed to discuss the fact that my stock is bunt orange in color and has a huge fish eye grain pattern in the middle of the butt stock and looks horrible. I have to pay to send the stock to them first before they will discuss any replacement.
 
#9 ·
No sir, I assure you its no hoax. I also agree that a rifle produced today should not require the end consumer to have to pay to ship the rifle to the factory to simply get a magazine! Thats about as ridiculous as it gets!
The rep. told me on the phone " thats why we ship the rifle with 4 magazines".
Well, I don't particularly like the 10 round mags that stick out from under the stock like an assault rifle. Winchester gave me 3 of those, and only one 5 round mag that fits flush with the stock.
 
#7 ·
Winchester prolly realized that each rifle's mag retention catch is slightly different due to loose fitting and imprecise manufacturing. They are likely trying to avoid people ordering mags from them and whining out their noses for hours on end, etc etc, about the mags not fitting immediately. I had a similar problem with my TOZ 99 mags, but they were easily adapted to fit, lock, and feed in both my 99 and 78; all it took was 2 minutes and a file.

If Winchester won't talk to you, even after you offer photos of the stock (I hope you offered :p), something is seriously wrong. I can kinda understand the mag thing-- I think it's rediculous, but I can understand-- but not accepting customer complaints about a bad stock is poor service indeed.

If you're still looking for more mags, you could try getting in contact with Tennessee Guns. They might sell you some spare TOZ mags, which should alos work in the Wildcat.
 
#8 ·
A thought: it appears to me that the TOZ mags are molded without the notch, then workers file out the notch till each mag will lock inot the rifle. If Winchester imported a bunch of mags without mag catches at all (haven't been filed yet), it would explain why they want to get the gun back before they let you have the mag.

Not saying it's an intelligent way of doing things, just a theory.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Hell, if that was a CZ someones panties would have gotten soaked by seeing that wood.:rolleyes:

You need to put a sticker on it saying, " I got my eye on you...sucka!".:D

If it wasn't a brand new rifle I would just suggest to strip it and stain it with something darker and deeper but it's not.

As for the "factory fit and finish" magazine idea that would be OK if it was a one-off custom built rifle that cost thousands of dollars but for some reason it just doesn't catch my fancy with a $200 re-branded Russian rifle.

What it sounds like to me, if the magazines need to be made to fit a particular gun, is that the magazine latch is the problem piece here.

Is the magazine latch easily removed? My Target/Varmint is still on back-order at Zanders so whenever it arrives I'll be able to mess with mine but I think if we could compare releases from two different rifles we could see the problem/s....hopefully.

Scott

 
#13 ·
I haven't looked at a toz,but looking at the way the mags are on my wildcat and what I had to do to make the toz mags fit,the feed ramp must be a little different.The toz mags have a rounded cut at the frt and the win is square.After cutting the square they work fine.

These rifles and mags aren't exactly precision made,but shoot remarkably well.Evidently the time went in the barrel.

Oh,the finish on yours looks better than mine.If it comes to it,my ten year old can take stickers or camo paint and have it on his.
 
#14 ·
After re-examining the mags, I stick by my earlier statement. My Russian magazines straight from TOZ appear to have been molded into the main body shape of the magazine, without the notches, and had the notches filed/cut in afterward. Most likely, these notches were in a predetermined spot, but due to imperfections and loose tolerances in machinery or the parts themselves (the notches might even have been hand-cut o_O), some might have had to be fitted to individual rifles to make them work. I'd bet Winchester has mags with either pre-cut notches that they don't trust, or no notches at all. Maybe someone should call up Winchester and ask them?

BTW, how does your Wildcat shoot, Sheriff? We know the mag situation is bad and you don't like the stock, but I can't find anything in a quick search about any actual range trips with it. I think you're the only one on RFC reporting with a Wildcat, so the feedback would be greatly appreciated :D.
 
#16 ·
BTW, how does your Wildcat shoot, Sheriff? We know the mag situation is bad and you don't like the stock, but I can't find anything in a quick search about any actual range trips with it. I think you're the only one on RFC reporting with a Wildcat, so the feedback would be greatly appreciated :D.
The rifle shoots just fine. I did have a bit of trouble getting a set of rings to clamp to the factory groove, but that seems to be the norm, even with the regular TOZ-78. I haven't shot a wide variety of ammo in this rifle yet but, Federal Auto Match and Wolf MT both get me decent groups at 25 amd 50 yards.
I have no complaints about its accuracy at all, but I think I will unload it and buy a CZ 452. A Larger stock that will fit me better, good accurancy and I can buy a replacement magazine without having to ship my rifle a way for a month.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Nope, didn't expect walnut at all. I would have rather had no grain at all than that ugly fish eye pattern. The picture doesn't capture the half the problem. The picture makes it appear darker than it really is. Because that is a knot, the stain did not take very well and that entire area is several shades lighter than the rest of the stock. Bottom line is it should have been rejected. I would have been pefectly happy if the rifle looked remotely like the one they display on their web site. But, mine is burnt orange. Every person I have showed the rifle too makes the same remark, "what an ugly color" !!!
I have looked at other Wildcats at my local Bass Pro and every one they had in the store looked just like the one on Winchesters web page, a dark walnut tone.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=525&type_id=100&cat=C
 
#19 ·
So you didn't expect walnut, but expected that it would look like walnut?

Bottom line, these are cheap guns. As someone stated before me, the barrel is what seems to be the quality component.

I would say re: the mag issue that $30 for a cheap, plastic mag is excessive. And so is requiring that you return the rifle. But hand fitting a mag is not always necessary. I have three spare mags for my TOZ (two wildcat 10rd and a TOZ 5rd) that arent serialed and were not hand fitted to my rifle but they all work. You could take a chance on finding someone here on the forums that would like to trade a 10rd for a 5rd, or place a want to buy in the classified forum. If there is some hand-fitting required, it is not too difficult to do if you take your time.
 
#20 ·
So you didn't expect walnut, but expected that it would look like walnut?
Yes, I expected it to be a walnut tone, Not Friggen orange! I don't understand whats hard to understand about that. Dozens of new inexpensive rifles are on the market today with beech or birch stocks that are stained a walnut tone. Its kind of a standard in the industry. I can't remember seeing many gun mfg's advertising their "hardwood stocks" as stained Redwood, Mahagony, Cherry, Maple or Oak. Its alway Walnut.

As for doing a bit of gunsmithing to fit the magazines, I have no problem doing a bit of gunsmithing, but I should be able to buy a magazine from the Mfg. of a modern day firearm without sending the rifle to the factory. I shouldn't have to buy another brand magazine and alter/fit them for a firearm that I just bought new in the box a month ago.
Its for sale, anybody want to trade a like new CZ 452 for a like new orange Wildcat?:rolleyes:
 
#28 · (Edited)
More TOZ 78 Pictures

What I wouldn't give to have that beautiful rifle in the second pic up there, Aom22. There's just somethin about that that makes me smile :D.
If you want to see more of the second rifle (and, YES - I do) go to Finish Website: Asesivut.net Double-Click: Asetestit, Double-Click: TOZ 78 Don't forget to double-click on the individual images for a better look.

And, the first rifle ... if you'd like to see another Beeched Blonde (Sorry j.r. guerra in s. texas ... I could'nt resist - I love this line).
 
#33 · (Edited)
We are not that far apart here, I agree.:)
However, the location of production does not play as heavy role as you may believe. Those rifles are imported, marketed, badged and sold as Winchester rifles, period. The fact that Winchester choose to contract TOZ to produce their product, does not relieve Winchester from reasonable customer support. The excuse that they are made in Russia, so Winchester is really not obligated or responsible for essential parts support, just won't work with me.;)

I also am very suspicious that rifles imported under the TOZ label do not require a return to the factory to obtain magazines, just the Wildcat. TOZ magazines are available through some of the importers and at gun shows so I know they are not restricted items. I wonder if Winchester elected to have the Wildcat mags made different to generate profits in the parts sales area.:rolleyes:
 
#34 ·
The fact that Winchester choose to contract TOZ to produce their product, does not relieve Winchester from reasonable customer support. The excuse that they are made in Russia, so Winchester is really not obligated or responsible for essential parts support, just won't work with me.
Who here is making excuses for Winchester?
I also am very suspicious that rifles imported under the TOZ label do not require a return to the factory to obtain magazines, just the Wildcat.
Considering that the factory is in Russia, it would be even more unfeasable than Winchester's policy.
 
#36 ·
Well, I spoke with Winchester customer service this morning who verified that the magazines are factory installations only. Each magazine must be fit to the rifle. Thats just ridiculous, I think I will sell this rifle now before it raises my blood pressure any more than it has.
-SELL THAT CURSED RIFLE AND QUICK-

So much for the whoopla I've heard about Winchester's comeback
 
#38 ·
My complaint with Winchester isn't that extra mags must be fit to the rifle but that they included only one 5-round mag! I would have preferred 2, 3 or 4 5-round mags instead of 3 10-rounders.

I like mags that fit flush and do not project where they interfere with my hand.

My TOZ-99 should be delivered tomorrow and I hope that the 5-round mags with it will fit my Wildcat.
 
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