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Scopes

6K views 39 replies 25 participants last post by  MKIIISS 
#1 · (Edited)
Long time member rare poster has a question for you folks that know more than I.

For years I have been happy with my stock 10/22 with a trigger job. A few years I swapped out the stock and last week installed a GM 18" Bull Barrel.

It has warn a Simmons 3-9 22mag scope for a long time.

Now Instead of shooting pop cans at 50-100 yards, I would like to shoot some groups and see just how tight I can get them. Why? Because paper between bullet holes just pisses me off.

What scopes are you guys using?

I have been looking at: Vortex Crossfire II 6-18, Tract 4-12, Athlon 4-16

What do you think? Different suggestions?

How do I move this to the 10/22 list?
 
#2 · (Edited)
I have a few Mueller 8-32 target dot scopes and I like them alot. Much more then my vortex crossfire 6-24 and they cost half as much. I don't often use them at the full 32 power but from 18-24 they are sweet and the side focus is a huge bonus for me.

I would make sure to go to Mueller's website and make sure you order from an authorized vendor as I understand there are scopes for sale from other people that did not meet thier quality control and were rejected but fell into the wrong hands. They do have an ebay store listed that is directly from them selling certified ones that have been returned and repaired and inspected and carry thier lifetime warranty.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 
#6 ·
I have a few Mueller 8-32 target dot scopes and I like them alot. Much more then my vortex crossfire 6-24 and they cost half as much. I don't often use them at the full 32 power but from 18-24 they are sweet and the side focus is a huge bonus for me.

I would make sure to go to Mueller's website and make sure you order from an authorized vendor as I understand there are scopes for sale from other people that did not meet thier quality control and were rejected but fell into the wrong hands. They do have an ebay store listed that is directly from them selling certified ones that have been returned and repaired and inspected and carry thier lifetime warranty.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
I second the Mueller 8-32, great optics and crosshair. Mine is better than my Vortex
 
#7 ·
+1 for the Mueller 8-32 44mm . Great scope for punching paper, especially at set distances. Very good bang for the buck.

The Athlon Scopes are good too, I like my 4-14 40 BTR FFP (same price as the Mueller). Great for hunting or shooting at varying distances. But 14x does not compare to 32x for shooting small groups.
 
#9 · (Edited)
When you buy glass to shoot tiny holes that look like one hole there is this montra you need to learn.

“Aim Small Shoot Small”
“You Get What You Pay For”

When it comes to scopes first thing to consider
Do I get a variable? OR do I get a fixed power?

With fixed power you get more bang for your buck and fewer parts to go bad inside..

Two parts to scopes
1-variable power scopes has many more critical parts than a fixed power.
2-optical glass

Be kind to your eyes and get the best glass you can afford. The better the name and the higher end scopes will have better internals and glass.

Some scope makers or scope classes either give you better mechanical internals at the expense of glass quality and some sacrifice the quality of the mechanical for better glass.

If it will alway reside on one gun and not get moved around and you set it and leave it then you can give up some on the mechanical and go for optical but regardless which scope you buy will need to have some form of parallax adjustment because you will end up shooting at 25,50,75, and eventually 100 yards so you can’t really skimp on mechanical either.

My best advice without suggesting a specific brand is read reviews and reviews and reviews.
Try to find out the failure rate at what you are interested in.

If this will be dedicated to target only then some kind of target reticle will be needed.
I use a fine or super fine cross hair with a dot.
The cross hair will alway be visible because your targets will be brightly colored.

1-Quality of the glass is probably the most important to reduce or prevent eye strain.
2-quality of the internal parts
3-magnification

A scope with really good glass can give you better definition and require less power and poorer glass can require higher power just to see the target the same and cause eye strain in the process.

Example
A good 4-12x40 leupold can actually provide a better picture of the target than a much cheaper 6-18x40 scope.

This example is almost completely fictitious and just made to illustrate my point.

On a variable when you go cranking up the power is where the glass and mechanical come together and if one is off sight picture gets blurry or hazy.
The cheaper end of scopes when you crank up the power the glass gets foggy and you just can’t crank it up even when your close to the target.

A really good and well knowledge man on this sight used to say all the time when it comes to target guns buy as much scope as you can afford or spend as much on the glass as you did for the gun.

My go to scope is a Leupold 4-16x44 that is unfortunately out of production.
Then my next is a japan made tasco 6-24x44
Then a japan made tasco 32x40 fixed

Leupold and weaver also have good 32x40 fixed
Surprisingly Early BSA 32x40 are good fixed power scopes to.

I’m not suggesting these, these are just what I use. I know little about the knees names on the market.


Support America and buy American all my latest glass has been American.

I believe/think Leupold is the only American made scope today. I may be wrong though ...


P.s.

Ne sure the parallax will focus down to less than 25 yards.

"The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand, we listen to reply"
 
#10 ·
Right on

When you buy glass to shoot tiny holes that look like one hole there is this montra you need to learn.

"Aim Small Shoot Small"
"You Get What You Pay For"

When it comes to scopes first thing to consider
Do I get a variable? OR do I get a fixed power?

With fixed power you get more bang for your buck and fewer parts to go bad inside..

Two parts to scopes
1-variable power scopes has many more critical parts than a fixed power.
2-optical glass

Be kind to your eyes and get the best glass you can afford. The better the name and the higher end scopes will have better internals and glass.

Some scope makers or scope classes either give you better mechanical internals at the expense of glass quality and some sacrifice the quality of the mechanical for better glass.

If it will alway reside on one gun and not get moved around and you set it and leave it then you can give up some on the mechanical and go for optical but regardless which scope you buy will need to have some form of parallax adjustment because you will end up shooting at 25,50,75, and eventually 100 yards so you can't really skimp on mechanical either.

My best advice without suggesting a specific brand is read reviews and reviews and reviews.
Try to find out the failure rate at what you are interested in.

If this will be dedicated to target only then some kind of target reticle will be needed.
I use a fine or super fine cross hair with a dot.
The cross hair will alway be visible because your targets will be brightly colored.

1-Quality of the glass is probably the most important to reduce or prevent eye strain.
2-quality of the internal parts
3-magnification

A scope with really good glass can give you better definition and require less power and poorer glass can require higher power just to see the target the same and cause eye strain in the process.

Example
A good 4-12x40 leupold can actually provide a better picture of the target than a much cheaper 6-18x40 scope.

This example is almost completely fictitious and just made to illustrate my point.

On a variable when you go cranking up the power is where the glass and mechanical come together and if one is off sight picture gets blurry or hazy.
The cheaper end of scopes when you crank up the power the glass gets foggy and you just can't crank it up even when your close to the target.

A really good and well knowledge man on this sight used to say all the time when it comes to target guns buy as much scope as you can afford or spend as much on the glass as you did for the gun.

My go to scope is a Leupold 4-16x44 that is unfortunately out of production.
Then my next is a japan made tasco 6-24x44
Then a japan made tasco 32x40 fixed

Leupold and weaver also have good 32x40 fixed
Surprisingly Early BSA 32x40 are good fixed power scopes to.

I'm not suggesting these, these are just what I use. I know little about the knees names on the market.

Support America and buy American all my latest glass has been American.

I believe/think Leupold is the only American made scope today. I may be wrong though ...

P.s.

Ne sure the parallax will focus down to less than 25 yards.

"The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand, we listen to reply"
Peashooter got it right. Get a Leupold. A 3-9 Vari-XII on a .22 is hard to beat and if it ever goes bad Leupold will be there to repair it. Older El Paso built Weavers with their Micro Trac are also good scopes.
 
#16 ·
Probably the most useful post so far. The scopes mentioned above go from "reasonably priced" to "blindingly expensive". Not saying which is best for you, but a Zeiss or a Swarovski on a 10/22 would be an unusual matchup. Were I in your place, I would spend some time cruising the ads in our own Trading Post for a scope in the 4-26 or 6-18 range. Mueller makes a fine one in that range and is quite economical. Leopold makes an excellent one in that range;it is expensive but if you don't like it, it has the best resale percentage of any other scope in that magnification range. A Weaver would be a good choice, as would a Nikon, but they do or soon will lack any factory support. Have fun and let us know what you choose. Burris Signature Zee rings would be a good choice and would protect your scope.
 
#17 ·
The Vortex Crossfire II 6-18× is IMO one of the best "budget" scopes you can buy. You can find them new for around $150 if you look. I've had a couple of the Mueller 8-32× scopes and they're not bad for shooting off the bench. But they're also not very bright once you get up over 20× and the eyebox isn't very good on the higher magnification levels. The Vortex is clearer on 18× than the Mueller is at the same power. The only drawback to the Vortex is that 18× is not really enough for serious target shooting @100 yards. It's fine @50 and will work @100, but it is much easier to shoot small groups with more magnification. The big question (which was already asked) is what is your budget? I just went with the scopes that you listed. Like anything else for the most part you get what you pay for with scopes, with few exceptions. Also what distance will you be doing most of your shooting from? If most will be done @50 yards then you can probably get away with less magnification. If your going to be doing a lot of shooting @100+ then your going to want as much as possible.
 
#20 ·
I’ve found that every person is a little different. Personally don’t own anything over a 4.5-14. I just don’t enjoy the bigger higher power scopes. I’ve had plenty over the years and shot a lot of other peoples rifles with them. To this day the best groups I have ever shot were with an anschutz 1422 and a redfield 2 3/4X scope with a 4P CCH reticle.
Iron
 
#21 ·
In that price range I have found one of the most useful scopes to be found is the Weaver V16 with the fine crosshair with target dot or fine duplex... judging by the ad I put in the classifieds yesterday, there are lots of them available in that price range. The AO will focus down to 25 yards or less, and I've found the glass to be clear and bright if not on parr with my $450-$600 Leupold 6.5 - 20 scopes..
 
#22 · (Edited)
Buying used is a great way to get more bang for your buck.

Just to be clear here, Burris, Leupold, and Vortex (and I'm sure some other manufacturers) warranties are lifetime, regardless of who bought the scope new and regardless of what happened to it -- whether it's manufacturers defect or you ran over it with your lawn mower. Sightron and some others have a lifetime warranty against manufacturers' defects, but not necessarily against damage or abuse. These warranties are automatic, don't require a receipt, proof of purchase, etc. Leupold has a very dedicated following and probably has the best resale value of any mainstream line.

I will also say that there are a definitely instances of The Emperor Has No Clothes in the scope and optics world. Or at the least, the Emperor's clothes aren't any better than the peasant's clothes in the ways that will ever matter to the vast majority of owners. To see for yourself, assemble a bunch of scopes from some of the popular brands, ranging from $50 to $500 street price, and compare them side-by-side at the same time of day, looking at the same optical resolution target (or other targets that will allow you to make and record your findings and evaluations), and see what you learn. You are likely to be quite surprised. It's kind of akin to taking a gun that you have hunted with and plinked with, and that you think is a "tack driver," and putting it on a bench to see how accurate it actually is.

Set your scopes up something like this, with as many scopes lined up as you like. These two happen to be the Leupold VX2 3-9x33 EFR and Burris Timberline 4.5-14x32.


Set your target up at the distance(s) you want to compare (I've done it at 50, 65, 100, and 140 yards with several of my scopes).



Make notes of what is the finest detail that you can discern in the test pattern, how colors compare through the different scopes (may want to use other targets for color comparisons if that's important to you), how accurate the marked A/O yardage is, how big the eye box is, and very importantly to me, just how "pleasant" is the scope to sight through - how relaxed is your eye while sighting? (I find quite a bit of variation on this point, even between scopes that are similar in resolution or other traits).

I use this chart to record my observations and notes.


I find this testing fun, and sometimes buy scopes just to compare, knowing that I'll keep them if I like them, sell them if I don't.
 
#25 ·

This target or one very similar is what you want to use when judging glass. Especially on max magnification. This will surprise you and the more detail you can see "resolution" the easier the glass will be on your eyes.

"The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand, we listen to reply"
 
#26 ·
I have a variety of scopes on my .22 rf rifles. I shoot targets only & usually from the bench. If I was a hunter the list would be very different.

6x24 Bushnell 4200 Elite fine xhair & dot
6x24 Weaver V24 varmint dot xhair
Weaver T36 (4) 2 dot & 2 without
Sightron Sll 36X (2) fine xhair & dot
 
#29 ·
I've owned many different scopes and recently put a Tract 22Fire 4-12X on my new Bergara BXR .22, which as you may know is often called a 10/22 clone. I've owned a 10/22 and I like the Bergara better. I think the Tract is the best scope I have owned in a long time and only cost me $194, total cost...no shipping and no tax. The Warne rings i ordered with it are perfect. The Tract customer service is very personal and helpful....excellent in all regards. Read the reviews. They are uniformly positive and accurate. Will not go wrong with Tract.
 
#38 ·
Greetings folks,
There are only about 12 or so shooter in our little group and about half are using the 8-32 Muller scopes....We have found they are , for the money, a very good rimfire scope. Yes, I have higher quality scopes also but for anyone who is getting started in any type of long range 22 shooting these Muller (chinese) scopes give a novice as well as those of us who have been around for many years a very good option....I really love my Night Force 12-42 that I took off my now unused 1000 yard 6mm bench rest gun ......It now lives on my CZ 455 Tacticool......We shoot from 30 yards on out to 200 yards and for my old eyes it suits me fine as do the Mullers......Read the reviews and try to find someone who has a Muller and you can see for your self...Good luck....
 
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