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IZH 7-4 takes 3rd ... Rimfire Tactical Precision Match & Tactical Biathlon BI-7-4

9K views 50 replies 9 participants last post by  aom22 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
IZH 7-4 takes 3rd

Hey guy's,
I have been reading this forum for sometime and thought I would share.

Last weekend I took my 7-4 to a precision / tactical match at APS in So.Cal.
Out of all those rugers and savages, the russian took 3rd.
It was a great match with bunch of great guy's.
The weather was a smaller issue than we thought, it was raining before we started, 50 degrees with winds
around 12MPH and spotty light showers on the first stage. (Nobody wants to shoot prone in the mud)

If any of you guy's live in the LA area and haven't checked this match out your missing some great fun.
There is info on the last shoot and stages in the Fun Match forum under Search this Forum: 22 tactical.
Also there was an write up about our first match at Rimfire Tactical Precision Match
 
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#3 ·
Out of all those rugers and savages, the russian took 3rd.
Soooo, let me see. There was a Ruger, a Savage and your Russian tomato stake in a 2x4 rifle......3rd out of three isn't too bad! :D

Everyone knows these Russian rifles aren't worth anything. The barrels are better for tomato stakes than shooting ammo.:rolleyes:

All kidding aside, that's great shooting! It's only a matter of time that, not only the latest supply of Russian rifles, but the current CM2's start showing up at some of the smaller home town shoots and their reputations for shooting like crap will smack the "NAY" sayers in the face.

If the shooters take the time to find the right ammo they will be able to hold their own with much more expensive rifles. OH WAIT...we already know that.:bthumb:

I don't want to be the one who breaks the news to you raw bits but you have been added to the "Russian tomato stake representatives at shooting matches" roster. Keep up the good work or we'll send you to Siberia for a nice long Vacation.:D

Scott

 
#4 · (Edited)
Rimfire Tactical Precision Match

What a great idea.

Rimfire Tactical Precision and a SV-99 ... would be a perfect Match.
If only the SV-99 or a civilian version were available in the USA.
However, it does seem like a good venue for biathlon type rifles
equipped with mil-dot or ranging telescopic sights.

raw bits,
Great link. Any photos of your rifle and yourself at the event?
SAKO Quad P04R ... Rimfire Tactical Precision Match Rifle

Sako P94S FinnFire Rifles for Rimfire Tactical Precision Match
... I going to start a thread featuring rifles that maybe suitable for Rimfire Tactical Precision Match.
 
#5 · (Edited by Moderator)
Photo Link: Rimfire Tractical Precision

Hey Toxic you had me going there...

Your right about ammo, but just getting the thing rigged right was a feat,
after that just shooting until you get the feel down.

The rugers have an advantage over the bolts for speed but I'm almost as fast if I need to.
we had a 30 sec speed drill and my rifle was perfection.

Here is a link to one of the guys that posted pictures.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Rifle Equipment

What did it take to set-up your rifle for the competition.

Could you identify the scope, rings and mount you are using?

Also, the bi-pod and any other equipment you would need to get started?
 
#8 ·
That's a great looking setup!! With the scope and bipod it doesn't look anything like a biathlon rifle.

Too bad it was in California, otherwise you could be really tactical with a suppressor on the end of that barrel.:D

Now, I know that it wouldn't be tactical but if you had a 10-50 power scope on that rifle those 1/2" dots on the "know your limit" targets would be HUGE!!! I'll have to get some photos of my targets at 50yrds through the scope.

BTW, what ammo were you using?

Scott
 
#9 · (Edited)
Tactical Biathlon

That's a great looking setup!! With the scope and bipod it doesn't look anything like a biathlon rifle.
Oh yes it does look like a biathlon rifle - a tactical biathlon.
raw bits ... I love your set-up.
Simple, Clean, Funtional.
I've been thinking about it all-night-long.

I think I see a new trend for the BI-7-2-KO ver. 02 Basic ... the Tactical Biathlon Basic
Paul McMenamin from 6mmbr
showing Dennis his Russian .22LR.

 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
Tactical Biathlon BI-7-4

It's for sure tactical.
I bought the gun form Mac Tilton at MT Guns, he's been great,
he scratched his head a couple of times
when I told him what I was going to do to the gun.



At first I took the gun to the range and tested ammo
and with my older eyes just couldn't determine a good group
with the sights that came with it.
Took the sights off and tried several rings, the rail is 4.5 very small
and the only thing that would fit is a Kalinka BE 7 top.
When I tighten the top mount my action became very stiff.



Come to find out the rail was drilled crooked
and it took all the windage the scope had to get it on paper,
and the scope it self was a mile high.
I bought some nighthawk elbow pads and slid it over the stock
and that raised it high enough but not a good check weld.



I went to MT guns and Mac took off the rail and retaped,
we joked that there must of been a guy with a hand drill doing this.
He had made a weaver rail for me, he had three
and that was 6 months ago and they look fine and work great.



While I was there we were bebating the front sight
and if it could be acting like a tuner of sort,
I had tested it with different weights and couldn't see much change
and the scope cleared the snow cap which I wanted to keep,
very X looking and practical with dust and rain.
Before I could think Mac was taking it off, that's some serious glue.



I bought a Barska Tactical SWAT Extreme telescopic sight,
6-24x44, mil dot, 30mm tube, side focus, illuminating rectical.
I've heard good and bad about these but it had everything I wanted for $300,
as it turned out I got a good one and saved a lot of money.



I added about an inch to the butt and kept the hook and it fits me perfect now.



The bipod is a harris 9-12 with a swivel knob,
it's a good idea to get the knotched legs.
Champion shooters sells swivel studs that slide into the forearm rail.
They come in two sizes, I bought both and neither fit
so grinded the american style till it fit.



I'm still checking ammo but it really seem to like eley black box
and that's what I use during the matches.
The mag holders on the side of the stock are a life saver
when your in a hurry and they keep the mags clean.
That is a big problem, we have lots of wind and dust.
Some guys keep there extra mags in their pockets and they get lint and jam.

When we start a stage we don't know distance,
position or how many rounds until we get to the line.
keeps you on your toes.
 
#11 ·
I bought the gun form Mac Tilton at MT guns, he's been great,
he scratched his head a couple of times
when I told him what I was going to do to the gun.
Well, if you think that he was confused about your rifle you should have heard both he and Bruce when I talked to them about adding a scope rail on my Strela 3 and the barrel threaded for a suppressor.:D The gears were grinding and the sparks of confusion were flyin'.

I almost feel sorry for those guys but they enjoyed it and they will be getting more money from me in the future.:bthumb:

Scott
 
#12 ·
Russian 7-4 Biathlon/Tactical rifle

For the past few years I had been looking to purchase a Mod. 52 Winchester, magazine, target rifle (like the one I owned 30 years ago, but sold) to shoot ground squirrels over in Montana. I had been using a Remington 541T HB, but I finally gave up on the plastic magazines and sold it to a friend of mine. The 541T HB shot great but the mags. sucked. I would load the ten rounders up, start shooting squirrels and when the sun hit the black mag. It would heat up, expand and spew out the rounds when I seated them in the rifle or on the shooting bench. Remington replace 7 out of the ten mags, but I still had the same problem.

Anyhow, I started using my CZ 452 22 LR varminter and it worked well, but it was not quite what I wanted. I wanted a rifle/stock combination like my single shot Anschutz 54 MS, adjustable cheek rest, length of pull, etc. I wanted a magazine fed rifle. I found out that what I wanted was not being produced.

I started reading about magazine fed, Biathlon rifles and found MTGuns. I phoned Mac Tilton and explained to him what I was looking for. We decided that Mac would take a 7-4 Biathlon rifle, machine off the dovetail sight rail and he would fit a full, receiver length, 20 MOA. Picatinny/Weaver, aluminum scope rail to the receiver. ( cost $100.00 plus the cost of the 7-4) The 20MOA scope rail would let me use one inch or 30mm scopes out to two hundred yards or more. (depending on the scope.) I plan to use a SS10 X42M or one of the new Wonders 4-14X50 scopes that I just purchased.

I have not received my rifle (Its at the gunsmith) yet. I will let you know when I get it. Mac Tilton has been great to deal with.
 
#14 · (Edited)
ANSCHÜTZ Entry Level Biathlon Rifle

... I wanted a rifle/stock combination like my single shot Anschutz 54 MS, adjustable cheek rest, length of pull, etc.
I wanted a magazine fed rifle. I found out that what I wanted was not being produced.
For the moment the closest ANSCHÜTZ
is based on the 64 action.


We hope to put one of these beauties on the firing line at the next Saugus match.
A Savage Mark II or even a Ruger 10/22 could still win all the marbles,
but the Anschütz 64 R will certainly be up to the task.
 
#16 ·
7-4 Biathlon/tactical

Raw bits, Because I never plan to use the match front, rear sight, sling and forhand stop that came with the rifle, Mac credited me $295.00 for those items. The rifle came to $1100.00+$20 for shipping and $100 for the 20 MOA scope base and installation. Mac also agreed to swap out some of the five round mags that came with the rifle for some ten rounders. I just turned 63 years old and will only be shooting ground squirrels, P dogs and targets.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Russian 7-4 Biathlon/Tactical rifle

... I never plan to use the match front, rear sight, sling
and forhand stop that came with the rifle, Mac credited me $295.00 for those items.

The rifle came to $1100.00+$20 for shipping and $100 for the 20 MOA scope base and installation....
Any pictures of your rifle?
 
#18 ·
7-4 Biathlon/tactical

AOM,

I have not received the 7-4 yet. I probably will not receive it until after the holidays. The 20 MOA rail is being installed.

I also do not have digital camera yet. Trying to decide which one to get. I want one that has great resolution and can be used for close up shots. I plan to wait until after the new year. There may be some great buys available after Jan 1. I also purchased a Video Professor training video to learn how to use the camera and post pictures.
 
#19 ·
Digital Camera

... I also do not have digital camera yet. Trying to decide which one to get.
Professor training video to learn how to use the camera and post pictures....
Are you looking for a point-and-shoot or an SLR type?

My wife owns a Sony DSC-W200 point-and-shoot
that I love to use ... no-longer in-production.

And a Sony DSC-F717 Cyber-shot that I use ... no-longer in-production.

I have taken most of the pictures I have posted with the DSC-W200 ...
much less complicated, easier to use and it gets the job done.

The Sony replacement for the DSC-W200 is the
Cyber-shot® Digital Camera DSC-W300
that I have been very tempted to buy for my wife
so I can have exclusive use of the DSC-W200. :D

Whatever you buy, also purchase a wide angle lens and a telephoto lens.
You will not regret the additional lens.

Fortunately for me, I have a very computer and digitally literate wife.
She is my reluctant tutor.
 
#21 ·
Off-Hand Shooting with Biathlon Sling

rawbits ... I noticed when you were shooting off-hand
you didn't take advantage of the biathlon sling.


Shooting Off-Hand without sling.
Off-Hand Shooting with biathlon sling.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Biathlon and Target Rifle Sling

Yes, I used a cuff sling, you just can't see it from that side.
It's attached to the hand stop and then hooks to a arm band....
U.S. Olympic biathlete Jay Hankken fires prone
with his arm sling securely attached to his firing cuff.


Photo courtesy Eberlestock
When it is time to fire, biathletes hook an arm sling made of webbing
to a firing cuff on their upper arm.
This connects to the rifle, and provides stability.
How to Use and Adjust the Sling
For Target Rifle Shooting

 
#24 · (Edited)
(Here is a quote from a book Small Bore Rifle shooting)
The gunsling is of little or no advantage in standing position.
I also just dusted off 3 more of my 3P books & they all said the same thing.

Thats always been my understnding when shooting in the standing
position also......But what do I know I don't compete in 3P shooting.

Thats looks like allot of fun...Rawbits.

Swiss
 
#32 · (Edited)
Biathlon Slings



... the sling is only used i prone shooting...
when your breathing hard and your heart rate is up,
the sling doesn't help your offhand shooting enough to be worth using.
PixelPaul & Biathlonboy, I don't doubt or question what you'll are saying.
From what I gather, both of you have direct experience in biathlon competition.
I'm just surprised - this is an unexpected revelation.

I'm surprised ... because, in my advanced marksmanship training in the military (not biathlon).
I was instructed, "If you have a sling, use it ... use it to your advantage."
I learned how to employ a rifle sling to enhance shooting accuracy.
I've never forgotten.
As such, given the opportunity I will use a sling.
For example, while performing "picket duty" for TDCJ, I insist on being issued a rifle with a mounted sling.
When I arrive "on post" I carefully readjust the sling for shooting - not carry.


Take a look at this firing line.
I think I can make-out two shooters (position 21-20 & 26-25) employing the biathlon sling.
And, one ... maybe one, judging by sling tension, using an arm cuff.
But, it is hard to tell for certain.
Double Click for Larger Image
Reference:
7-4 Sling (not harness - the sling): BI Arm Sling with Firing Cuff & Shoulder Sling
How Stuff Works: Biathlon Photo Gallery
Joint Use of Slings
 
#36 · (Edited)
raw bits
Could you field this question?

ERdept,
Right now RimFire Tactical Precision Match competition is limited to SoCal.

Hopefully with exposure, like we're doing here, a stimulus for local matches will happen.
Talk with some local shooters in your area and see about staging an impromptu match.
 
#27 ·
...and came in 2nd.
MOOOVIN ON UP...

Well, it looks like you are representing us Russian rifle owners nicely. If you keep getting better you'll be entitled to double rations of Cabbage soup....maybe a half of a potato as well.:D

How'd you like getting hot brass in your face from the 10/22? Then again, you can blame the hot brass in your eye for losing you first place.

Scott
 
#28 ·
Hello All,

I'm new to the forum, but being a biathlete myself (as my SN suggests) i thought i'd confirm what PixelPaul wrote. the sling is only used i prone shooting... when your breathing hard and your heart rate is up, the sling doesn't help your offhand shooting enough to be worth using.

I have a IZH Baithlon rifle, as well as an anschutz 1827 "fortner". both are nice rifles, but there is a definite difference between Russian craftsmanship and German craftsmanship!
 
#30 · (Edited)
In my opinion the anschutz fortner action is faster and smoother to operate than the IZH... as far as how they shoot, I've never shot them side by side off a bench, but I have shot nickle sized 5 shot groups at 50m from the sling supported prone position with both of them. The Anschutz however is more consistent in low temperatures, which is important for biathlon.
 
#34 · (Edited)
If you got it use it ... It depends on the match/ rules.

Your right, if you got it use it. It depends on the match/ rules.

I shot silhouette for a while and you can't use a sling or glove and
even upper body clothing is limited.

Our rules are, any 22LR. you can use slings, bipods, scopes, but no rear bag.
If the stage calls for kneeling you kneel, we sit, offhand, prone.

We have shot out of moving trailer at steel and the position is up to you.
Same with shooting out of a honey pot, you can sit (lol) or stand.

Everything is explained as far as position and time just before the stage.
This match was originally design to complement CF tactical matches, a way
to shoot cheaper and still have a great time.

The guns seem to not matter as much, because Henry (the guy that got first) shot a savage
with average scope and beat me by 100 pts. Good shootin Henry! aka buffybuster.
You need to know your dope and read the wind, everything else is extra.

We have noticed a little bit of an arms race taking place.
Suddenly new barrels are appearing, trigger work and such.

I'm sticking with what I got, it shoots great, why screw with it anymore than I have.
I was going to recrown it but found out it was me not the gun.
 
#39 ·
Digital Camera

Got the PM. Now I want to train at the range!

I'll see you there next time.
And, take your digital camera with you - please. :D
More pictures ... more interest ... more forum participation - aom22. :yippee:

One more thing, photo document your rifle set-up and shooting positions
so we can all share in your experiance. :bthumb:
 
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