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Garrow Firearms Development 17hmr locked bolt gas operated AR upper

40K views 143 replies 32 participants last post by  M92pv4u 
#1 ·
I will put pictures in here shortly, however right off the bat I want to say, WOW! Love this upper!

You can use any AR 15 lower, the magazines are same size as a 20 rnd magazine, however, take only 10 rounds. So California and other states legal!

Extremely accurate, have been having minor issues with the cci and federal fmj rounds, however, much of this is I think due to the case lots themselves.

Have run 5 different loadings (50+ rounds of each) from Hornady through Federal and CCI -

Accuracy is extremely good, stacked rounds on top of each other at 50 yards, and well under an inch at 100 yards - best groups were with the Hornady 17 grn vmax and the cci version as well as the various hollow point loadings. All minimum 5 round groups, most 10 rounds.

Will be updating with pictures, video links and more as I collate data, so at the moment, it has been better (reliability and accuracy than the Anderson upper and the out of the box Savage I have.)

Again, check out their site, and I will update more as I get it put together -trying to get full video, pictures and verify everything.

Fun action, smooth, no discernable poa shift when shooting! Not huge with any rimfire but, still very nice!

Jesse
 
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#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
A link to their site is here, ive been having fun with this ! They have great pictures however I want to show my 8 year old daughter enjoying it as well

https://garrowdev.com

Will be posting target pictures and video link soon-testing takes time and money :) have shot 450 rounds so far it definitely favors the ballistic tip and hollow point ammunition, have had no major issues, with anything, acccuracy is almost match grade. May shoot next rimfire match with this for kicks!
 
#5 ·
We got an upper in as well. It will be traveling with us to 5 states while we hunt varmints all over the southwest!

Needless to say, it will see a lot of action!

I look forward to your report as well, Jesse. We'll be in Northern AZ for about 5 days hunting all types of varmints during our trip.

Eric :cool:
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
So quick blurb from article, sneek peak for everyone here.
1:9 twist, 18" a2 ss barrel, absolutely laser accurate!

Article will have pictures-

What Mr. Garrow has done is create a method of allowing a type of round known for fluctuations in power with less expensive loadings and even in some more expensive designer cartridges from Hornady and Winchester to function almost flawlessly in a platform that the round was NOT designed to be used in. His design has not only allowed this to be done reliably, but also with accuracy typically only seen in the CZ bolt action 17hmr rifles currently available! For instance groups from a sandbag at 25 - 50 - 100 and 200 yards shot using 10 round groups had measurements rivaling 3 and 5 round groups from other rifles! At 25 and 50 yards none of the ammunition tested grouped larger than an inch and half overall. The ammunitions tested were Winchester., CCI and Hornady and consisted of several loadings from CCI with only one loading available at the time of the test for Hornady and Winchester. I will list the loadings used later on. At 100 and 200 yards I was getting my best groups (5 rounds) with ballistic and hollow point ammunition, at 100 yards all ballistic tipped ammunition was under 1 inch and at 200 yards only one grouping (CCI Green hollow point) was over 1.5 inches! The list of ammunition tested follows.
Winchester Varmint 17 grain 17hmr
CCI Green hollow point (I do not like green ammunition this test proved again why it is not well liked, unreliable and honestly extremely inaccurate given the platforms used.)
CCI TNT hollow point (amazing round! Ordered a case!)
CCI GamePoint 20 grain jacketed soft point (not accurate, not reliable not worth buying!)
CCI V-Max 17 grain polymer tip (very accurate and reliable!)
Hornady 17 grain V-Max (very accurate, not as reliable a loading as the CCI - same bullet being used!)




Full in depth article Monday the 9th, needless to say- highly recommend!
 
#11 ·
Been waiting a Long time for a direct impingement 17 HMR upper.

A few questions.

1. I see that it is offer with an 18 inch barrel what would happen if you cut it down shorter?

Does that affect the amount of gas and wealth time needed for the roller Locker to function?

2. How often did you have to clean it to keep it running and how wet it is like to be to run?

Could it go 500 rounds without cleaning?

The price is very good I just wish the handguard was better looking. If I get one I will have to swap it out.

I took my wife out shooting my CZ 455 in 17hmr this week. She said she wants a 17 HMR for herself. Maybe I will give her that one and pick up one of these for myself :)
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
Been waiting a Long time for a direct impingement 17 HMR upper.

A few questions.

1. I see that it is offer with an 18 inch barrel what would happen if you cut it down shorter?

Does that affect the amount of gas and wealth time needed for the roller Locker to function?

2. How often did you have to clean it to keep it running and how wet it is like to be to run?

Could it go 500 rounds without cleaning?

The price is very good I just wish the handguard was better looking. If I get one I will have to swap it out.

I took my wife out shooting my CZ 455 in 17hmr this week. She said she wants a 17 HMR for herself. Maybe I will give her that one and pick up one of these for myself :)
Like most AR uppers, direct gas impingment I would say that as long as it is cut above the gas port, you should be fine. "Should" as I have not done so myself. 18" gives me just a bit more accuracy.
16" should allow for full burn and still be past gas port. Obviously ensure a clean cut with positive crown detail afterwords.
It is locking bolt, so definitely contact Mr. Garrow regarding this possibility, may affect however, physics and mechanical design would suggest it is possible, certainly.

* currently over 1300 rounds through it now! I clean normally after every session, however, for testing let it go too where it began slowing, at which point I added some lubrication and ran some more.

For optimal preformance I cleaned every 500-600 rounds, and using ballistol cut with 10% water lubed in AM and shot through 650 rounds with know real non ammunition issues. Added a 3-4 drops too it at the 450 mark due to slowing, but no failure to function (Durn green ammo is difficult to gauge only tried rhe cci offering so possible other brands may get it better )

Wetter the better, however, wetter also means dirtier faster, balance this with a solid wipe down pre first shoot, secondary drips in typical AR spots with a bit more around bolt and you should be fine!

I shot exclusively in Arizona, non monsoon season, so very very dry! And it was amazing, ran like butter when kept clean and lubed up.

**handguard, at first I was put off, and than it grew on me! I love it now, using a bog pod (check out Mr Mayers article on varminter.com for this awesome accessory) I have been nailing the point of aim repeatedly, the handguard allows for a solid surface and using a bipod mounting stud kit ($10-$15 from midway, cheaper than dirt) and 7 minutes with a dremel/cordless drill you can have your favorite bipod mounted as well.

I have not drilled anything, however did on two other ARs with similar free float solid tubes, very easy to do.
 
#12 ·
For folks who are in the SoCal area, Garrow will be at the Costa Mesa Gun Show this weekend. After hunting with their upper and shooting 100s of rounds at varmints over the past 10 days, I have to say that it was a joy to shoot and a great option for those looking to bypass the new CA AR15 rules.

More to come from us as well.

Eric :cool:
 
#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
Read the review.

Looks promising. Couldn't watch the video but will later tonight.

Would love to see it go up against com CZ's, Savages, and Annies to see how it hangs. Accuracy sound great

what barrel maker does he use?
They make barrels in house I believe,

1:9 twist/ 18" stainless / button rifled

For those interested here is link to article-

Varminter.com is doing a hunt trip, and article-they may be doing comparisons, honestly the other 17hmr firearms ive owned ended up funding other projects, I do plan on comparing directly at a local rimfire shoot soon!

I wasn't able to get any a17 in prior to testing, I would suspect it would run well and likely be accurate.

I did pick up a .17 bore snake and it works great to help keep it clean, i also carry a small squeeze bottle of ballistol whenever im out shooting, (and in go/work bags) its Arizona dry is normal so, prepared is best.

I think the other questions were answered in article, however, I absolutely love reviewing and answering questions that I can.

I'll make sure its okay with Mr. Garrow and post if its okay with board basic contact info. -

Two things i did not post on film,

1. Supressor works amazing with this firearm, however, due to recent events chose to not post that.
2. 100-150-200 yard targets did not get posted, just 50 yard
targets-with 10 round groups
 
#29 ·
Hey Mike,

Welcome to RFC!

Is there anything special that needs to be done to replace the forend and will any AR forend work?
Hey, Rolltide. It has the same size barrel nut as any standard AR-15. You may have to do a bit of modifying on a specialized forend for clearance of the gas tube, but anyone with dremel tool skills can make that happen. I realize that not everyone will be enthused about the Hogue, but I really wanted to make it more affordable and use quality, American-made parts. I happen to love the Hogue, myself ;)

-Mike Garrow
 
#30 ·
Exactly, Fourbore.

It's a practical setup and meant to be a workhorse, rather than a showpiece. Since everyone has different tastes in forends, they can swap it out for what they want to use. As for 22 mags... It would certainly require more than just a different barrel. However, the more hype I get from customers for it, the more I'll be enticed to make that my next big product. I do have more than a few things in mind for the near future, so you'll have to stay tuned!

-Mike Garrow
 
#35 ·
I definitely like where this design is going, especially the accuracy. It's nice to see the dev here on the boards interacting with interested parties. I also like that the magazines can be had through black dog, I have a bunch for my 22 LR upper.

Mike, is the upper receiver specific for the bolt design? Or is it just an alternative to the standard milspec offering we see on centerfire variants? In other words, could one use any ol milspec upper receiever if it suites thier fancy?

Chris
 
#36 ·
Hey Chris!

The receiver is 100% designed specifically for this system in order to utilize gas pressures and not have issues cycling. One major adaptation is that it utilizes roller lockers, so those little guys are not going to fit in any standard milspec uppers (or anything else), sorry to say. We make them out of billet now, but I still have some M4 forgings from a Police order made, if you like the look of that better. I get the feeling that aesthetics are the main concern behind the question ;). I'm right there with ya! It's not an easy choice to make for me either since everyone's tastes vary, but in order to keep the price point where it's at, I have to make some sacrifices on looks and not performance or safety. I do get pictures from customers that paint their receiver and they look a complete rifle right off the shelf. What's your style like?

- Mike Garrow
 
#39 ·
Emailed Garrow to ask if the 17 HMR uppers were stock items or if there is a wait time. No response so far. Anybody with recent order experience? Vic
Good Morning, Vic.

Sorry about the wait, we're on the West Coast and it's 8am here. We do have some in stock and you can find it at https://garrowdev.com/

As far as reviews and comments on the uppers go, this blog is good, as well as Jesse Mathewson's professional experiences with it on his site:
https://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/...-17hmr-dedicated-upper-weekly-product-review/

There's also an overview of the product in its entirety at:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/11/garrow-firearms-development-17-hmr-ar15/

Let me know if you have any more questions!

-Mike Garrow
 
#49 · (Edited)
Garrow Upper

The Garrow 17 HMR upper was delivered this afternoon. Swapped the rifle buffer and spring for the ones included in the kit per the included instructions. I swabbed the barrel with a wet, then dry patch and assembled it on a lower that normally has a .204 Ruger upper. The lower is a CMT billet with a Hiperfire 2# trigger, Magpul MOE fixed stock and rifle length receiver extension (buffer tube). The Garrow upper installed with no problems and fit well. Upper is nicely finished and appears to be a quality item.

I don't have a suitable scope mount yet, so decided to do a quick function test with two types of ammo, Hornady 17 gr VMax and Hornady 20 gr XUV. The kit comes with two magazines, so I loaded each with a different load. Fired five rounds of the 20 gr ammo with no malfunctions. The first two rounds of the 17 gr ammo failed to eject. Fired five more rounds of the 17 gr with no more malfunctions. Not sure why the failures to eject occurred. Ran out of time, so had to halt test.

When the weather improves I plan to do accuracy tests at 50 and 100 yards with the ammo I have on hand. More later, Vic
 
#52 · (Edited)
The Garrow 17 HMR upper was delivered this afternoon. Swapped the rifle buffer and spring for the ones included in the kit per the included instructions. I swabbed the barrel with a wet, then dry patch and assembled it on a lower that normally has a .204 Ruger upper. The lower is a CMT billet with a Hiperfire 2# trigger, Magpul MOE fixed stock and rifle length receiver extension (buffer tube). The Garrow upper installed with no problems and fit well. Upper is nicely finished and appears to be a quality item.

I don't have a suitable scope mount yet, so decided to do a quick function test with two types of ammo, Hornady 17 gr VMax and Hornady 20 gr XUV. The kit comes with two magazines, so I loaded each with a different load. Fired five rounds of the 20 gr ammo with no malfunctions. The first two rounds of the 17 gr ammo failed to eject. Fired five more rounds of the 17 gr with no more malfunctions. Not sure why the failures to eject occurred. Ran out of time, so had to halt test.

When the weather improves I plan to do accuracy tests at 50 and 100 yards with the ammo I have on hand. More later, Vic
Hey, Vic!

Sounds like it's going well! Keep it running wet and you shouldn't have ejection problems once it breaks in since the tolerances on it are incredibly tight.

-Mike Garrow
 
#62 · (Edited)
Update Report

An update on progress to get the Garrow 17 HMR back online. WARNING: The following report is long and somewhat detailed and may be boring to many users not interested in technical details or who are not familiar with the internal workings of the AR platform. Proceed at your own risk!

Report:

The upper receiver was removed from the lower and the charging handle and bolt were removed. The Hogue handguard was unscrewed and removed. No excessive torque was required to remove the handguard this time. The handguard threads although slightly damaged from cross-threading still tighten/loosen smoothly. The gas block Allen head set screws were loosened and the gas block/gas tube assembly was removed. The gas tube was in a slight bind due to the misaligned barrel nut and required a light tap with a small hammer and punch to remove. The gas tube did not appear to be bent or damaged.

The stripped barrel/receiver was clamped in a bench vise using a NO-MAR vise block to prevent damage or marring of the upper receiver. (Note: the rimfire upper doesn't use a conventional AR type screw-on barrel extension, so a reaction rod cannot be used to secure the receiver in a vise. Also, the billet receiver is contoured differently than the typical AR forged upper, so the usual split type vise blocks commonly used for that type receiver may not work either.)

The Hogue barrel nut unscrewed easily with the use of a strap wrench. The strap wrench was used since a proper barrel nut wrench was not immediately available. The barrel was then removed from the receiver.

A few minutes were taken to inspect the barrel, upper and parts. Machining looked very good. No rough edges or tool marks were evident. The threads for the barrel nut were smoothly cut. Surfaces were nicely finished.

The barrel was re-inserted into the receiver. The replacement handguard barrel nut was installed to test fit. As mentioned in a previous post by Mike Garrow, use of a handguard other than the Hogue may require modification to the barrel nut for gas tube clearance due to the short rimfire gas system. That turned out to be true here. The barrel nut was removed and secured in a vise with soft jaws. A few minutes work with a Dremel tool and carbide burr and finished up with a small round file provided the necessary clearance.

The barrel nut threads were coated with anti-seize to prevent galling between the dissimilar metals. The barrel nut was torqued and the gas tube hole was aligned with the one in the receiver. The gas block/tube assembly was reinstalled and the set screws tightened. The gas block/tube fitted easily back into place with no binding. The bolt was reinserted into the receiver without the charging handle or roller lockers in place to check for binding. The bolt moved easily without any apparent binding on the gas tube. The bolt was removed and reinstalled with the charging handle and the roller lockers in place. The replacement handguard was installed and the upper was reinstalled on the lower receiver assembly.

Night had fallen by the time the work had been completed. A quick attempt test firing was inconclusive. The weather is supposed to improve over the next few days and a more complete report with some accuracy testing should be possible. A new thread will be started with further range reports. Vic

Further Update:

A more thorough test fire session was done today. SUCCESS! Well mostly. The bolt and receiver races were well lubricated with Balistol before the testing began. Ammo tested was: 17 gr Hornady VMax and 20 gr Hornady XTP. Five rounds of each were fired using each magazine. The 20 gr ammo functioned perfectly with no problems. The 17 gr ammo had a failure to feed on the first round and then fired the other four with no more malfunctions. More testing will be needed with the 17 gr ammo to determine the cause of the malfunction. Old ammo, magazine problem or ? Vic
 
#63 · (Edited)
I'm super excited to have found this thread, and upper, via a link on Black Dog's website for WM mags

I'm very interested in a farther shooting, accurate rimfire AR and originally I was looking for a 22 WM AR Upper, and still am, but knowing 17 HMR shoots flatter and longer might just be better - plus 15 cents a round for 20gr JHP ammo (17 HMR) isn't bad

I have read your FAQ and know I can install an A2 clamp-on front sight with sling swivel, but would like to run GI (mil spec) hand guards on it - will your gas block fit underneath either triangle or round carbine- length hand guards?
 
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