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-   -   HOW TO make GUNNER TOOLS (https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504746)

OCD 09-14-2013 06:47 PM

It' .095 line from Homer Depot , Rhino . The iron is twice the size of yours it is a antique/classic was my grandfathers, size of a baton!it's 100W. It takes a long time to heat up there is so much metal in it. Probably was not hot enough. I am used to my soldiering gun, pull the trigger kind.

I did another and made it bigger. Need to order some Otis brushes:)

hd09 06-10-2014 09:16 AM

That Rhino line works fine. I also made an adapter out of brass about 11/16'' long tapped one end 8-32 for brushes and jags then the other end 4-40. Ran a 4-40 die onto the .095 trimmer line and screwed it in the adapter. Works great and I don't see the line ever pulling out.
Thanks DrGunner for your inspiration.

DrGunner 06-10-2014 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hd09 (Post 5042801)
That Rhino line works fine. I also made an adapter out of brass about 11/16'' long tapped one end 8-32 for brushes and jags then the other end 4-40. Ran a 4-40 die onto the .095 trimmer line and screwed it in the adapter. Works great and I don't see the line ever pulling out.
Thanks DrGunner for your inspiration.

How about some pics of that critter for the rest of us?

DrGunner

hd09 07-02-2014 08:14 AM

Sorry it took so long to get back, been everywhere but here. The hardest part was attaching the brass to the line, hard to hold. The line must swell up some when a die is run on it. I must be a little dumb I cant post a pick. Maybe I'll learn someday. I did make it on a mini lathe, probably be a lot more difficult with out one to drill straight and to the right depth.

DrGunner 07-02-2014 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hd09 (Post 5062503)
Sorry it took so long to get back, been everywhere but here. The hardest part was attaching the brass to the line, hard to hold. The line must swell up some when a die is run on it. I must be a little dumb I cant post a pick. Maybe I'll learn someday. I did make it on a mini lathe, probably be a lot more difficult with out one to drill straight and to the right depth.

I would really like to see the pics shared here to further the info available for the membership.

Hosting Pics on Photobucket for FREE:

The amount of data you can upload is severely limited, as the RFC server would have to be HUGE to hold all the jpegs. Start a free photobucket account, then upload your pics and copy a link to the IMG file in Photobucket and paste it in the "Reply to thread" box here. You can post multiple pics in one reply, but try to limit yourself to 2 or 3 per reply or they will be downsized automatically.
As long as you don't remove or delete the original file, it will appear here. You might want to allocate your photobucket albums as private, or anyone will be able to stalk yo bucket...

If this is all too much, send me a PM, I will reply with my email address and you can send the pics directly to me. I will upload the pics to my Pbucket acct and host them for you.

Hope this helps,

DrG

hd09 07-02-2014 03:51 PM

[IMG]http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2d432e65.jpg[/IMG]Here it is I made 2 different ones a .200 and a .230 outside diameter. Thought it would be good for larger calibers.
Thanks DrG

DrGunner 07-03-2014 08:58 AM

Here's the other pic from hd09... Looks like a really nice MODULAR adaptation of the Brushsnake- allowing users to swap out parts at will.

Very Cool!!!

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/...psbac48908.jpg

DrGunner

gunsmither 07-12-2014 07:27 PM

Tip -Use a bit of wax
 
Great ideas Dr. G! Thanks for sharing your great stuff. :t :t

I've made a lot of the weed whacker pull thru gizmo's. I found that using a bit of wax on the end of the heating element keeps the plastic from sticking so badly, and allows me to slide off the formed "knot" off the heater. I used cast bullet lube, but paste wax or even candle wax will probably work.

DrGunner 07-12-2014 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunsmither (Post 5072150)
Great ideas Dr. G! Thanks for sharing your great stuff. :t :t

I've made a lot of the weed whacker pull thru gizmo's. I found that using a bit of wax on the end of the heating element keeps the plastic from sticking so badly, and allows me to slide off the formed "knot" off the heater. I used cast bullet lube, but paste wax or even candle wax will probably work.

Thanks for that! I tried candle wax, but found that the button would "boil", inducing bubbles in the end result- maybe I need a bigger bolt head to dissipate heat, thus lowering the temperature?

I will definitely try the wax again- although I have been making them with steel wool to clean the head of the iron for so long, it's just become a part of my process.
Any char left behind tends to melt into the button, and I've found the cleaner the button, the stronger.

Time to see what kinds of wax I have around to experiment with.

I appreciate the input!!!

Regards,

DrGunner

DrGunner 09-01-2014 02:39 PM

Update-
 
I decided to make a batch of handles out of brass rod stock. Amazon has Hoppes .22 cal 3 piece brass cleaning rods for $8.86, free shipping for Prime members.
The rod kit also has a loop jag and cylindrical push type jag.
I found the brass to be MUCH easier to work with when drilling and tapping.
First, the original male threads from the sectional rod are cut off and each section is ground flat and perpendicular to the axis of the rod on the male end. An 8/32 tap is then run into the "female" end. The flat end is then drilled and tapped as described previously in this thread resulting in straight rod sections that are drilled and tapped for 8/32 threads on both ends. Each of these sections was then polished on a cotton rag wheel using jewelers rouge. After polishing, they were cleaned thoroughly and the threaded sockets in each end were flushed out with solvent a few times and then well oiled. Next comes bending of the finger loop.
Bending the brass around the 5/8" deep well (spark plug) socket/bubba jig requires the use of more heat than aluminum. I use a spark plug socket because it has a hexagonal outer surface at its base and therefore is easier to lock into a vise for good stability. After heating about 2 inches of the center of the rod with Mapp gas wearing heavy leather gloves, I was only able to wrap the rod around the socket and cross the ends before things tightened up. Forcing the issue at this point cracked one of them which you will see as a single loop handle in the pics.
So I simply took the units back to the torch and applied heat to the loop area up to where the rod crossed itself and reheated for 30- 45 seconds, applying heat to both sides before taking it back to the jig for a final shaping. A quick touch up buffing on the wheel is then needed.
I then applied a layer of Maguires paste wax to keep them from oxidizing.

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/...psaki1embd.jpg
http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6uyet2zy.jpg

I have to say that these rods are much easier to machine, much stronger when bent to their final configuration, and simply have a better look and feel of quality in my hands. I will be using brass exclusively from now on.

DrGunner

DrGunner 09-01-2014 02:48 PM

Button puller update
 
I have been using .095" round green Gatorline to make my Patchsnake button pullers and Jagsnake looped patch pullers for a few years now. It is readily available, relatively inexpensive, and holds up to abuse pretty well – or so I thought. I have noticed over the last two seasons that the button on the green trimmer line will pull off after a few months of hard use, especially on patch snakes that are a tight fit in the bore.



http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/...psda05fc12.jpg


I decided to start experimenting with different products and found a spool of this .105 inch Universal trimmer line made by Rino Tuff.

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/...psrsmksyl6.jpg


I made a few button pullers with it and have to say that the way that the material melts is superior to the Gator line, the button is much harder and near impossible to pull off!!! The only downside is that the trimmer line itself has a light serration down one side which could potentially collect up grit which would be a no-no and contrary to the intended purpose of these tools.

I have experimented with methods to remove the seriation, sandpaper was my first thought but tends to embed small particle of Emery or silica into the line so I nixed that idea. So far, pulling a straight edged razor blade against the line with gentle thumb pressure seems to work well. I will keep experimenting with this new material and post back here when I have a process perfected as I do believe it will produce a superior button style patch pulling device once I get the nuances of their fabrication worked out.


Hope this helps-

DrGunner

FlyBye 10-14-2014 10:38 PM

Wonderful Idea...
 
DrGunner

I know that I'm late to the party, but that is just awesome! Thanks for the idea along with the detailed photos. I can't wait to make one or two myself.

DrGunner 10-14-2014 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyBye (Post 5164786)
DrGunner

I know that I'm late to the party, but that is just awesome! Thanks for the idea along with the detailed photos. I can't wait to make one or two myself.

Hey, a NEW GUY... :yippee::Welcome::yippee::beerchug:WELCOME to RFC!!!!!:beerchug::yippee::Welcome::yippee:


Since you have the auspicious honor of being the subject of my 6000th post, and as
a welcoming gift- I would like to offer you the following:

PM me your mailing address and I will send you a brass chamber handle, jag puller and a handful of button pullers-

Freebie!!!

Warmest Regards,

DrGunner

Flametamer52 12-02-2014 10:25 AM

DrGunner, Schutzen-jager, hd09, and other contributors:

Thanks so much for this thread. Just found it, although I cannot recall how I got here from there..:confused:. I have been experimenting along similar lines and your generosity in sharing your results is very much appreciated:bthumb:

Perchance, have you resolved the question about smoothing out the RhinoTuff line?

DrGunner 12-02-2014 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flametamer52 (Post 5208395)
DrGunner, Schutzen-jager, hd09, and other contributors:

Thanks so much for this thread. Just found it, although I cannot recall how I got here from there..:confused:. I have been experimenting along similar lines and your generosity in sharing your results is very much appreciated:bthumb:

Perchance, have you resolved the question about smoothing out the RhinoTuff line?

I have been running mine on a ragwheel with polishing compound-

Just have to be careful, go slow and don't build up too much heat:bthumb:

You might want to check this thread by Nosnil22- Dave invented a crown protector for use with pull through cleaning systems:


https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=565768


Hope this helps-


DrGunner

Flametamer52 12-02-2014 01:16 PM

Simple enough, thanks!

Gabby-Bill 01-24-2015 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrGunner (Post 4585743)
Tomorrow I will post Chapter 1: How to make the Gunner Patchsnake button style puller....

DrG

OK I hope the photos are there then I can't see a Darn thing as it is, just boxes with X's in them.
G-B

DrGunner 01-24-2015 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabby-Bill (Post 5266344)
OK I hope the photos are there then I can't see a D**n thing as it is, just boxes with X's in them.
G-B

Bill- the pictures are working fine on my PC and tablet:confused:

You posted a similar statement earlier this morning in another thread... Logical answer is it's a technical issue on your end.

Hope you get it figured out-

DrGunner

Gabby-Bill 01-25-2015 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrGunner (Post 5266349)
Bill- the pictures are working fine on my PC and tablet:confused:

You posted a similar statement earlier this morning in another thread... Logical answer is it's a technical issue on your end.

Hope you get it figured out-

DrGunner

I think you are right and I'm not sure how to deal with it! :mad:
Anyone savvy enough to give me a pointer?
G-B
:comeandge:
Some of the images in other threads open without a problem, but many have the little black box with the X which makes me wonder about photobucket or whatever source you are using may be having a glitch, or even this site is glitching. I've spent hours trying to view the photos on this site and this particular thread without results. Admin can you take a look and see if there is a problem here? I don't have any problem viewing images on other websites.

Gabby-Bill 01-31-2015 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrGunner (Post 5266349)
Bill- the pictures are working fine on my PC and tablet:confused:

You posted a similar statement earlier this morning in another thread... Logical answer is it's a technical issue on your end.

Hope you get it figured out-

DrGunner

Nope they are still blank funny thing is I can see photos in other threads of this forum.
But I'm experiencing the same thing on the checkering thread.
These two threads are the ones I really want to see what's going on, on!
Go figure! I'd like an administrator to take a look at it but haven't been able to find one to complain about it to.:gun4:
GB

DrGunner 01-31-2015 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabby-Bill (Post 5275323)
Nope they are still blank funny thing is I can see photos in other threads of this forum.
But I'm experiencing the same thing on the checkering thread.
These two threads are the ones I really want to see what's going on, on!
Go figure! I'd like an administrator to take a look at it but haven't been able to find one to complain about it to.:gun4:
GB

I just sent a PM to TheGeek, our tech Jedi/administrator. Hopefully he's not too busy and you'll have an answer soon.

DrGunner

Gabby-Bill 02-01-2015 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabby-Bill (Post 5275323)
Nope they are still blank funny thing is I can see photos in other threads of this forum.
But I'm experiencing the same thing on the checkering thread.
These two threads are the ones I really want to see what's going on, on!
Go figure! I'd like an administrator to take a look at it but haven't been able to find one to complain about it to.:gun4:
GB

Finally found out it must have been a firewall keeping photo bucket from accessing my computer, got rid of photo bucket and now I can see again. I'm not going to try to upload anything again no more mister nice guy.
G-B

chuckbiscuits 02-01-2015 10:28 AM

DrGunner et al,
First, thanks for the excellent write up of how you make your chamber tools. This is definitely on my "honeydew" list. I was cleaning my K10/22T yesterday and was needing a chamber brush. Found this thread and now I need to source some brass round bar!

I have a couple of tips to offer regarding the hot working of brass and aluminum. I am a welder by trade, and although I primarily build, service and install machines now, I used to make custom decorative architectural metal products. Long story short, one can easily "anneal", or soften, aluminum and brass using your MAPP torch and some water. You merely need to heat the metal to its "critical temperature" and then quench it in a bucket of water. I would guess that the AL rods in the Hoppes kit are made from 6061-T6 bar, so just warm them up to 8-900 F and quickly dunk them into a bucket of water. This will put them into a "dead soft" state. AL (and brass, an alloy of copper and {today} zinc) will "work harden", but since we will only be bending them once, it shouldn't be an issue. The T6 rod will automatically re-harden over time, so if you want to do a bunch of rods over a couple (or more) days, after annealing them, pop them into the freezer and they will stay soft indefinitely. Weird, huh? Frankly I didn't believe that until I tried it--had to make a mess of rivets to construct an arbor for a houseboat here in Seattle.

Anyway, you can find Tempil sticks at your local welding supply shop. Basically it is a crayon whose "wax" melts at a specific temperature. While heating the rods, keep dabbing the crayon onto the AL bar until it melts. Your failures /cracking while heating and forming the multi-piece rods from Hoppes were likely the result of overheating. AL doesn't get shiny when it melts, and its high coefficient of thermal conductivity makes it easy to heat up, but also means it cools down rapidly, especially in such a small diameter size. What this means for our annealing process is that time is of the essence when preparing for the "dunk". As quickly as possible (an assistant really pays off here) get the rod into the water before it cools below the critical temperature, or becomes overheated. Once quenched, the difference in formability is dramatic. Care must be taken as it will become soft enough to be bent easily. Usually 24 hours later it will harden on its own, so set the formed rods aside and let them do their thing undisturbed.

When you buy your brass round stock at the hardware store, it will likely be "half-hard". Heat it to red hot, quench it and the formability should improve. I've not worked a lot with brass, so am not sure if it will reharden like AL. If you want a material that really works nicely, round up (pun intended:cool:) some silicon bronze rod. Bends easily with just a touch of heat and since silicon is the alloying metal (with copper) you don't have the low melting point of zinc to contend with, and the chance of cracking is greatly reduced.

Anyway, hope you find my ramblings useful. Thanks again for the great idea! BTW, what diameter brass rod do you use? I must have missed it in your post.

DrGunner 02-01-2015 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckbiscuits (Post 5276802)
DrGunner et al,
First, thanks for the excellent write up of how you make your chamber tools. This is definitely on my "honeydew" list. I was cleaning my K10/22T yesterday and was needing a chamber brush. Found this thread and now I need to source some brass round bar!

I have a couple of tips to offer regarding the hot working of brass and aluminum. I am a welder by trade, and although I primarily build, service and install machines now, I used to make custom decorative architectural metal products. Long story short, one can easily "anneal", or soften, aluminum and brass using your MAPP torch and some water. You merely need to heat the metal to its "critical temperature" and then quench it in a bucket of water. I would guess that the AL rods in the Hoppes kit are made from 6061-T6 bar, so just warm them up to 8-900 F and quickly dunk them into a bucket of water. This will put them into a "dead soft" state. AL (and brass, an alloy of copper and {today} zinc) will "work harden", but since we will only be bending them once, it shouldn't be an issue. The T6 rod will automatically re-harden over time, so if you want to do a bunch of rods over a couple (or more) days, after annealing them, pop them into the freezer and they will stay soft indefinitely. Weird, huh? Frankly I didn't believe that until I tried it--had to make a mess of rivets to construct an arbor for a houseboat here in Seattle.

Anyway, you can find Tempil sticks at m your local welding supply shop. Basically it is a crayon whose "wax" melts at a specific temperature. While heating the rods, keep dabbing the crayon onto the AL bar until it melts. Your failures /cracking while heating and forming the multi-piece rods from Hoppes were likely the result of overheating. AL doesn't get shiny when it melts, and its high coefficient of thermal conductivity makes it easy to heat up, but also means it cools down rapidly, especially in such a small diameter size. What this means for our annealing process is that time is of the essence when preparing for the "dunk". As quickly as possible (an assistant really pays off here) get the rod into the water before it cools below the critical temperature, or becomes overheated. Once quenched, the difference in formability is dramatic. Care must be taken as it will become soft enough to be bent easily. Usually 24 hours later it will harden on its own, so set the formed rods aside and let them do their thing undisturbed.

When you buy your brass round stock at the hardware store, it will likely be "half-hard". Heat it to red hot, quench it and the formability should improve. I've not worked a lot with brass, so am not sure if it will reharden like AL. If you want a material that really works nicely, round up (pun intended:cool:) some silicon bronze rod. Bends easily with just a touch of heat and since silicon is the alloying metal (with copper) you don't have the low melting point of zinc to contend with, and the chance of cracking is greatly reduced.

Anyway, hope you find my ramblings useful. Thanks again for the great idea! BTW, what diameter brass rod do you use? I must have missed it in your post.

Hey Chuck- thanks for the useful info. Funny thing, I've already been quenching mine, I just drop them I'm a bucket of water to cool, but after shaping. I Will give your suggestions a try.

As far as the brass rods go, I don't even use aluminum anymore. The failure of the Hoppes aluminum rods appears to happen without overheating, about one in 10 just crumbles on bending and I suspect the raw material isn't of the highest purity?

Anyhow- I use Hoppes 3 section .22 cal brass rods now. They cost around $8-9 on Amazon, so I can make the handles for about $3 apiece. The brass is MUCH easier easier to work with, both forming and drilling/tapping.

I very much appreciate your valuable insight- I'm a tinkerer where this stuff is concerned and the vast majority of what I know is instinctive, learned from trial and error and thus a frequent and costly failure and waste of raw materials.


Your advice may well help minimize that moving forward.
:bthumb:

DrGunner

tmont 07-29-2015 07:50 AM

Thanks!
 
DrGunner:

As a new rimfire participant (perhaps addict would be more descriptive), I really appreciate all the effort you put into sharing these great ideas.
Very well done. :bthumb:
Tom


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