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-   -   High Design .22 Pistol - Help Needed (https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=575340)

MikeMyers 02-18-2015 03:22 PM

High Standard Sharpshooter 103 series - User Issues
 
I visited someone who was selling quite a bit of his very large collection of handguns and rifles. After looking over some of the guns, I left him a message that what I was really after was a good competition quality handgun for bullseye shooting. When I went back to see him, he showed me this gun, which is now mine:

http://www.sgrid.com/2015/high-standard-s.jpg

My problem is I know next to nothing about the gun, other than that High Standard used to produce some extremely accurate guns. I've already got a S&W Model 41, but after one look at this gun, I was sold.

I checked this page to look up the serial number:
http://www.histandard.info/datapubli...pserialno.html

They do have a "G prefix with 5 digits" column, but I can't understand how to read the chart. I think it means my gun was built in 1975.

Is anyone here familiar with High Standard guns, who can tell me exactly what this is? The person I bought it from told me it was reworked years ago, and fitted with a special barrel and the red dot sight. Once I know "what" it is, I'd like to try to find some documentation on how to maintain it, and what all the controls do.

It feels like it's balanced perfectly, and probably because of the special grip, it feels like it was specially made specifically for my hand.

There isn't exactly an overabundance of information on High Standard guns on the net, and what little information I did find seems to be from many years ago. I've been told that the "lever" on the left side is the lock, the "lever" (that you push) on the right side is the slide release (which is never done to allow the slide to slam forward), and the round "button" on the very front is to release the barrel. I think.

Thanks in advance for any help someone can give me, or point me in the right direction to find what I'm looking for. (I've already called High Standard, and maybe they'll actually return my call eventually....) Hopefully there is a user guide, or a manual, or even a "how to clean" list that I can download.

Steve S 02-18-2015 03:53 PM

I think you'll want John Stimson, whose site you visited, to comment on it.
On RFC is know here as "SGVictor". Or, you can to back to his own site and post on his forum. Note if you do, to read his Forum Rules for a complete description, complete serial number and your full name.
Better photo's would help of where it was made, etc.

Looks to me like it is a "G" series by your given serial number and made in 1975 as you say, but it surely also seems to me that either it is a custom barrel, or an OEM barrel that someone machined down to octagon.

But yours appears to be the "slant" grip 104 series which was made in 1975. Also, normally they would say the model name (such as Tournament, Citation or Trophy) on the left side of the frame above the trigger guard, but I don't see anything there in the photo. IF it is an oem slide, it would appear to be a Citation or Trophy that has been modified and / or chomed or nickled. But neither do I see an overtravel screw in the trigger. Are there any markings or symbols on the underside of the barrel? Are there any letters stamped on the frame rails beside the mag. well?
Dont recognize the grips--look like bakelite or plastic or Tenite variations of the Herrett National grip

Here is John's home page and Forum tab. Ask John, if anyone knows it will likely be him.

http://www.histandard.info/

http://www.histandard.info/models/pistols/104.html

MikeMyers 02-18-2015 04:24 PM

I don't remember the name of the barrel, but according to the seller, it was a custom barrel that was installed on the gun.

I thought people weren't supposed to post full serial numbers on internet forums? If that's not the case, I'll post that from now on.

The grips are "Accu Riser", and on the bottom of the grips it says "A-102".

There is nothing but polished metal in the spot where you say the model name should be.

No visible letters or numbers anywhere on the gun that I can see.

The magazine looks unusual to me (but maybe it's "normal looking" to everyone here:

http://www.sgrid.com/2015/hi%20standard%20magazine.jpg


I can post a link to the original image of the gun, very high quality, not squinched down to fit onto a web page.... Should I?

Steve S 02-18-2015 07:54 PM

The magazine on the left looks "normal" to me for a slant grip aka 104 HS pistol. But the green mag follower does look to be riding a little high--check to see if the mag. spring is in correctly or if it's in backwards. The 2 mags on the right look to be for your SW 41, correct? HS mags are very easy to take apart--depress the follower with a sliver of wood paint stirrer until the button on the follower is even with the hole for it in the slot--I do it by putting the base of the mag. against a stop or the bottom of my vice, push on the stirrer with my right hand and pull the button out with my left hand fingers or with a small pair of pliers. Pull the button out of the follower and remove the follower and spring from out of the top. The round portion of the top coils should be facing the forward portion of the magazine and the open end of the top coil should be facing the back of the magazine.

No, nothing wrong with posting a serial number on the internet--at least I've never had a problem and I don't know anyone who has. An Urban Legend I think, until I hear otherwise.

I've heard of Accurizer grips but never seen any that I can remember. The A 102 likely means they were for the 102 series slant grip HS guns, but as you have found, grips for the 102, and 103 and 104 series were interchangeable between frames for those 2 different series guns.

MikeMyers 02-18-2015 08:34 PM

Thank you Steve!

Just to confirm, you're suggesting I use a (wood?) paint stirrer stick, to push the green mag follower all the way down, until it is level with the round hole (shown in my photo), and then just pull the pin out, and gradually release the mag follower and spring? If so, I will put this on my to-do list.

Are additional magazines like this available for sale somewhere? I'd really like to have a second one around, if possible.

What I'd like most of all, is some kind of "user guide" or "manual" that shows me how to disassemble the gun for cleaning. If you know where I can buy, or copy this, I'd very much appreciate it.

Is there any article about this gun posted here in these forums? I don't (yet) know the difference between "Tournament", "Citation", and "Trophy".

I'll sign up on John's website in a few minutes. No problem with full name (I already do that), and based on what you said, I won't worry about serial number any more. (I saw some people using asterisks for the last few digits, so I figured that's how it should be done.)

So, it's likely that I have a "104 High Standard Pistol, either Tournament, Citation, or Trophy".

Do you by any chance know what kind of ammunition these guns like the most, or maybe I should ask, are there any that I should avoid? I know my model 41 can be very picky about ammo - no idea about how sensitive the HS is.

MikeMyers 02-18-2015 09:19 PM

I left a link in John's forum back to this one, and here's a link to what I posted in his forum:

http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussi...%20Information

HSWayne 02-18-2015 09:31 PM

Pistol
 
Mike,
Your pistol appears to be a nickel plated series 103 Sport King. A manual can be downloaded here: http://www.histandard.info/manuals/l.../0136D150R.pdf

John Stimson can tell you for sure from the serial number.

Magazines can be ordered from Brownells or you can buy used ones from eBay. You need to know what you are looking at on eBay, or you may end up with an older Triple K piece of junk. Your magazine is an original one, so you should look for one exactly like it. The round count numbers on the side of the magazine is the easiest way to tell an original from and aftermarket magazine.

Use standard velocity .22 LR ammo (i.e., CCI) in the gun.

I have used a Sport King with an Ultradot sight on it for Bullseye shooting. The only modification other than the addition of the mount and sight that I did to the pistol was to install an overtravel screw in the trigger. The gun compared favorably with the more expensive HS target versions.

To take off the barrel, remove the magazine, pull the slide back and use the slide release lever to hold it open, then use a 6 inch by 1 inch wood dowel to sharply rap the barrel release plunger to break it loose. Then push in the plunger with your thumb until you can remove the barrel. After you barrel is off, the slide can be removed by releasing the slide and letting it move forward and off the frame rails.

There is a wealth of information available on John Stimson's website. Just poke around on the various links, and use the search function on the forum for more information.

JVStalin 02-18-2015 11:08 PM

What it is ?
 
Agreed, a nickel'd Sport King. Note the lack of the trigger adjustment set screw and the small dovetail in the slide. The Accurizer grips were made by a company named "Fitz". That is a pretty piece of machine work on the barrel ! :bthumb:

MikeMyers 02-19-2015 06:45 AM

Here is the information from John; I condensed it into just the details:
(I'm amazed at how much information John was able to find!!!!!)


High Standard Serial Number: G02663 information from John Stimson

The gun started life as a blued Sharpshooter 103 series that shipped with key serial number M 06,934 on 6/29/1976 to account number 224019 on invoice number 01300-0. It went to assembly 7/24/1975 and was packed 7/31/1975. The records show it was returned to the factory 8/18/1976.

The "G" prefix serial numbers included the 103 series Sport King, the 103 series Sharpshooter, the 104 series Supermatic Citation and the Olympic ISU. Yours is the Sharpshooter. The serial number range is inclusive of all production lots in that serial number range and may include any of the models mentioned above. The serial number limits are the extreme range for a particular model. The lack of a model name on the left side of the frame would eliminate the Supermatic Citation and Olympic ISU and you will see that there is no trigger adjustment force screw in the back of the frame which also eliminated these models from consideration. The slide is clearly cut for the adjustable sight so it would not be a Sport King.

Manual:
http://www.histandard.info/manuals/l.../0205D150R.pdf

Trigger Pull:
A 1.0 to 1.5 trigger pull is too low to be used in most competition where 2.0 is the lower limit.

Grips:
Fitz made the Accu-riser grips in the brown Bakelite type plastic and in Walnut, Cherry and if I recall correctly another hardwood. There may have been a black Bakelite as well.

Magazines:
A couple of months ago I would have recommended the magazines made for the new High Standard company in Houston but recent reports suggest an improper heat treatment resulting in brittle lips. I will let others with more current experience comment on the best choice of magazine today.

Steve S 02-19-2015 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMyers (Post 5296837)
Thank you Steve!

Just to confirm, you're suggesting I use a (wood?) paint stirrer stick, to push the green mag follower all the way down, until it is level with the round hole (shown in my photo), and then just pull the pin out, and gradually release the mag follower and spring? If so, I will put this on my to-do list.

Yes, exactly right

MikeMyers 02-19-2015 04:55 PM

Not sure what the best place is to ask the following.... are there any recommendations for what kind of ammunition works best in this gun?

Is it likely that any good quality .22 Long Rifle Standard Velocity 40grain ammunition that works well in an S&W Model 41 would most likely work well in the High Standard?

Also, I'd like to get a second magazine, before I disassemble the only magazine I now have. John was concerned about a quality issue of the currently sold magazines from the new High Standard company. Has anyone here had any experiences with them, and if so, has that problem been resolved?

Steve S 02-19-2015 05:10 PM

Yes, any SV ammo that works in a 41 will work in these gun. You can do a search here too. The most common recommendation is for CCI SV--relatively inexpensive, never any duds to speak of, burns clean and relatively accurate. Federal 711b is also a good choice. For pricier ammo the sky's the limit--for mid range ammo I like RWS Target Rifle, SK Jagd Std + the best, plus CCI Green Tag or Pistol Match all in about the same price range of @ $6 per box of 50 (at least in my area). Like many other here, I too own a Smith 41 at this time--works for me.

Yes, I'm one of the commenters on recent mags having brittle feed lips--I've seen two of them in the last few months. I think it is just a bad batch that got made up. Haven't had a chance to call the HS factory yet to see if they have corrected the issue and rec'd new ones in. Call them, or I will get to it tomorrow if you like

MikeMyers 03-03-2015 04:23 PM

HELP NEEDED....

I'm not sure if I did anything very dumb, or I just don't understand how to "fix" what I did.

Never having shot this gun before, I wanted to see how it worked with "snap caps" before I loaded any live ammunition. I ordered a package of "A-Zoom Ammo Aluminum Snap-Caps: 22LR ACT". The package I received was marked "Action Proving Rimfire Dummy Rounds", with a note on the back that they are NOT snap caps, but "can be worked through the actions of any 22 Long Rifle for function testing". It also said they can be used only 4 or 5 hits for dry-firing. That's what I wanted them for, so all was well.

I loaded two of the rounds in the magazine, and moved the slide back. It didn't "catch" on anything, it just closed naturally, which is what I think I read I'm supposed to do (not allow it to slam closed). I pulled the trigger, and it "fired".

My problem now is that the slide won't pull back. I removed the magazine, but that didn't change anything.

Is there anything else I don't know of, that I'm now supposed to do?

Maybe I'm really dumb for doing this, but I'd feel FAR worse if this happened at the range, and I had a live bullet in the gun, ready to be fired.

Do I need to find a gunsmith to work on this, or is there something I just don't know about how to release the slide so it pulls back?

Steve S 03-03-2015 04:47 PM

A few things;
First, how hard did you pull back on the slide--these guns can be difficult to rack once the trigger is pulled and the hammer is down. Some can be hard enough that people don't buy the "bridge sight" (106, 107 and SH/108) models as they have trouble racking them without skinning a knucle on the rear sight.

Second, not being familiar with your "snap cap" of choice, it could be stuck in the chamber. These chambers are not as tight as say a Win. 52 or other match grade rifle, but tighter than some other cheaper guns. Also, maybe there was debris or corrosion in the chamber making things worse? In the future Ihe'd just use a spent shell or a yellow dry wall anchor--really cheap, work really well, also extract and can be reused quite a few times.

IE:, it could be just that the cap is stuck in your chamber and the extractor has grapped it and cannot pull it out. Try pushing in on the rear of the extractor to see if you can get the forward hook end to move away from the rim of the shell, even just a little bit, then if you can, put a sliver of plastic between the slide and barrel to keep it that way, and pull harder on the slide--really hard depending on your hand strength--I doubt you could break anything by hand.

Third, I believe there was a post here within the last few months from another gent who had the same issue on his gun--do a search and I'll look for it too. Not sure if he got it fixed or not. I am NOT prepared to tell you to put a bfass rod down the barrel and tap it as if clearing a squib. I'd exhaust all other options first including more suggestions that will likely come here, and even then if nothing works, I'd likely take it to a smith.

Do the search and wait for others to chime in too in the meantime

Steve S 03-03-2015 04:54 PM

PS, here is one such link--read all the way through it to post # 9 by Jerry944T for some advice as regards the sear, and hammer, but you may not have a trigger force screw in the back of your gun as it was once a Sharpshooter I believe?

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...ht=stuck+slide


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