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-   -   P-22 Magazines, Photo History (https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213708)

1917-1911M 01-31-2008 08:00 PM

P-22 Magazines, Photo History
 
There seems to be a lot of discussion and confusion regarding the history of P-22 magazines so here is a thread on them. Link to this in the future when needed and I've found it helpful when talking with S&W about a part or problem to ask the rep to log onto RFC and actually look at what I'm talking about. :bthumb: M1911

https://i.imgur.com/TpONC8vh.jpg Photo by milgunsguy

This is the original magazine. It had no stagger slot and did not perform well. It was replaced with blued and stainless "A" series long slot models. Notice also how the magazine catch lip was stamped. And, no Wikipedia does not have the correct information regarding magazines. Later models would be stamped differently with the catch sticking further out perhaps in response to some shooters complaining about the magazine dropping out of the pistol while firing. Most of us attributed that to shooter error, finger too low on the trigger and hitting the mag release lever.

https://i.imgur.com/xYvkykph.jpg

Here is a series of "A" mags. The earliest ones were blued, had the 1" (long) stagger slot but retained the mag catch style of the original model. The stainless "A" models pictured have various, slightly different stamping details and the mag catch has been stamped in a manner that causes it to extend further from the mag body. The short slot "A" model pictured in the center came out in 2006 as I recall. Some report problems, some say theirs function fine. Of the 8 or so I had, none functioned properly and caused stovepipes, jamming and live rounds being allowed to jump out of the pistol while firing. The spring retaining nub was also made slightly taller and fitting 10 rounds into some of these was very difficult if not impossible.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...magtest-08.jpg

If I remember correctly, Walther discontinued the short slot "A"s and introduced the long slot "B" model in the fall of 2007. It is essentially a copy of the long slot "A" models with a taller spring retaining nub and is stamped from thicker/stronger metal. I have had no problems with these magazines even after purposely dropping them onto a concrete floor to test their toughness. A number of late 2007 pistols were probably delivered for sale with remaining short slot "A" magazines until the supply of these was exhausted.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...M/IMG_2532.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...M/IMG_2532.jpg
Someone is always wanting more rounds in their magazines. A member here sent me a pair he had modified to hold 15 rounds. They work. This is the absolute max. The follower, mag body, everything has been modified to accomplish this. There is no follower button to easily press the follower down with so loading is a chore. The follower is so short it sits crooked, ready to bind at any moment. Now that it has been done, take a look and leave your mags alone. Too much is riding on properly operating magazines in all caliber and makes of semi auto pistols. A modification as simple as no stagger slot or a short slot was enough to keep those mags from functioning properly. An additional note is that up the 2009, new pistols came with two magazines. One flat base and one extended. Since 2009 the pistols only come with one magazine and a serial number is apparently being stamped on the bottom just above the floor plate. B suffix mags are still the newest except that the P22Q model has the grip stippling extended to the nose of the extended base. Latest word is of July 2011 and possibly earlier that the "B" has been dropped from the part number. There is now only the part number on the mag....no A or B. :Blasting_ :bthumb: M1911

saltydecimator 02-12-2008 10:17 AM

thanks for the history lesson 1911, wish i had your relationship with smith. i cut my follower down to get 2-3 more and regret it, gonna try to order the original follower from their site. not being able to load as quick is a pain.

josephbow6 07-01-2017 11:42 AM

Pictures are gone
 
Hey, 1917-1911M. I appreciate all of the help you've provided to all of the P22 owners over various forums. I've been following them for a while and finally found a couple of my old magazines. I came here to confirm which ones they were but it looks like the pictures are gone. Any chance you can upload those again?

Thanks again for your help!

1917-1911M 07-01-2017 05:07 PM

double post

josephbow6 07-01-2017 05:27 PM

Wow, that's crazy! Well, I hope they get it straightened out without the need for $400.

1917-1911M 07-01-2017 06:43 PM

I can guarantee you one thing.....they won't get $400 from me. The whole site advertised free hosting up to a certain level....after that you can purchase more data. That was the deal....but you know how how much to trust news on the net.... so we will see. In the mean time.

The original mags were blued and did not have a stagger slot in the sides of the body. They did not feed well and quite a few people complained about the mags dropping out of the pistol when firing so Walther added cutouts that allowed the rims to stagger. and stamped the mag catch in a different manner that allowed the catches to stick out further..these had a part number suffix of A. Everything went along fine with the mags for a few years but the P22 was flinging a large percentage of hot cases back and between the shooters eyes. So, Walther tried a little experiment with the mags to see if they could change this. Didn't work...wasn't even part of the problem but the slot was shortened to about 3/8" in length and once again mag issues surfaced.

Walther quickly went back to the A mag but this time with a bit thicker metal...these carried a B suffix. This went on for years and some time in the later production of the mags began to add parts number or something to the base of the mag body but the overall shape has remained the same and there is no reason that I can see that any further improvements are needed. In fact the A mags always ran 100% for me. There are very, very small changes in the stampings over the years...small details that don't amount to anything. 1917

josephbow6 07-01-2017 07:59 PM

Haha.. I hope not! I sure wouldn't give it to them. That's crazy!

All of my mags are stainless and I've definitely got 2 of the 'A' mags with the short slot. And the other two don't have 'A' or 'B'. Which from some of the posts you've made, sounds like they are the 'B's if the have the long slots? From day one I've pretty much had reliability issues. I've tried a few of your 'bible' modifications like, shaving the breech block (went too far so replaced that!), and the hammer (went too far again so replaced that with new!) as well as a couple of other mods that seemed to not make it worse at least. ( :

So, now I'm pretty much back to a new pistol minus normal wear and tear. They were apparently made in '05 and I bought them new then. One came with two short slot 'A' mags. The other came with two long slot (no letter). Do you think they'd let me send the pistols in and have them worked over or something? And surely they'll replace the two short slot 'A' mags still?

Thanks for your help. And I know that you like pictures but I don't know how to upload them yet. ( :

1917-1911M 07-02-2017 11:03 AM

At one point the short slot mags were being replaced if you called in and said you were having feeding issues and had the short slot mags. If they feed fine, I wouldn't worry about it and by the way....somewhere I did a thread where I pressed the lips in to match the A and B mags and that solved the feeding issue the short slots had...at least mine.

The parts that are modified with the hammer tip, trigger bar ears, etc. are all very small and only take just a minimum of work....square work but only a minimum. I tried to make sure that was understood in my threads but I removed too much from my very first hammer face mod way, way back. Then I re-stoned the primary hammer hook to correct the problem....but, better to not cause any problems to begin with.

I am running stock parts in my old '05 stripped down pistol at present which has a 5" barrel installed. It runs 100% on most ammo. The 3.4"barrel model is a bit more touchy.. that 5" barrel is very accurate...well under an inch at 25M.....if you can do your part. Guess I'm going to have to find a new hosting service or use the one here.... I should be a paying member anyway as much time of everyones that I wasted with this and that. 1917

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...e0069216a0.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...M/IMG_1203.jpg

1917-1911M 07-02-2017 12:35 PM

Hmmmm...for some reason when I was grabbing the photos off of the PB page and downloading them....I noticed the URL was showing...I copied it and so far the pictures are still hosting. They have sent me alerts three times trying to stop downloading....but, I log back in and have at it some more. We'll see who wins this battle. 1917

josephbow6 07-05-2017 12:18 PM

Hey, 1917-1911. Thanks for all the info and sorry I hadn't got back to you sooner. I contacted Smith and Wesson and they politely (and promptly!) told me that Walther Arms out of Fort Smith, AR will be handling all repairs and replacement parts for Walthers except PPK's. They also provided the phone number to call so I did.

I talked with a nice guy named Gerald (I think) and explained that I've had reliability issues from day one. Told him about the magazines I've got and issues I've had including 3 front sights popping out and getting lost in the grass. And yes, 1917-1911, I've read your post about not every having had that happen. ( : Haha....

Anyway, he is emailing me a postage label for FedEx so that they can look them over. I don't know what all they'll do, if anything, but I'll try to ship them out this week and will update here what I hear back.

While Walther/Smith and Wesson didn't do as much R&D on this pistol as they might should have, I'm so glad that they are at least trying to make us happy! I wonder if folks are having these similar issues with the newest generation of the P-22? Maybe a little less so since they upgraded the hammer and extractor a bit after your advice, 1917-1911. :bthumb:

1917-1911M 07-05-2017 07:21 PM

Hm...I figured everyone knew Walther has severed ties with Smith and Wesson. Walther does make the full size .22 for Smith but for a number of years now Ft. Smith has been the headquarters. S&W no longer provides any service for Walther pistols.

Time flies and I guess Ft Smith has been around for three or four years now. Heck, might be even longer... All Walther firearms have a lifetime warranty subject to the availability of parts. One of the things I did was change the width of the lips on the short slot mags and then they worked fine. I had a picture with measurements at PB but those are gone now. I still have the picture but will have to host and post again. Seems the lips were too close together and needed a bit of widening...but I might have that backwards. 1917

1917-1911M 07-05-2017 07:27 PM

When you install a front sight blade you have to be very careful to spread the little ears out under the bottom of the slide or they won't stay on there. I'm pretty sure the last P22 I purchased...a 2012 pistol that my sister took....didn't even have any ears on the bottom of the sight blade. I noticed it and since I had plenty of them replaced it...but not before photoing and posting it of course....back there in my assessment of a new Q model pistol.

BTW, Walther has showed a slightly revised P22 at the SHOT and NRA Atlanta shows but I haven't seen any on the market yet. It now has a captive recoil spring and a decocker lever has been added inside the right side that decocks the hammer when the safety levers are rotated to safe. I can imagine how it works but have not seen one in person.

I'm kinda wondering what is going on with Walther/Umarex...I am hearing some strange rumors. 1917

josephbow6 07-12-2017 10:47 AM

Yeah, I didn't know that they had parted ways with Smith. I'm glad that Walther is still standing behind their products though.

I had read your post on spreading the feed lips some. If they send me both of my short slot mags back, I'll likely modify them just a touch. I had also read about your tips for the front sight posts. But I lost those front sight posts years ago and didn't know this forum existed back then! Hahaha.... Anyway, I think I finally started inserting them with enough force and spreading the teeth on the underside of the slide. I've not lost the last one and it's been in there for a few years now.

Walther now has my pistols so hopefully I'll know something within a week or two. I'll be sure to update as soon as I know something.

1917-1911M 02-03-2018 07:42 PM

I still have all of the pictures that went with the original post but here is probably enough to get everyone sorted.

https://i.imgur.com/xYvkykph.jpg

The oldest pictured is the long slot blued one on the right. This replaced the original magazine which was similar but did not have a stagger slot of any kind. The original with no stagger slot did not feed well.

The next mag to the left of the blued one is one with the part number followed by an A. These worked fine and still work fine even in a QD pistol.

Way back there there was a lot of discussion regarding erratic and poor ejection direction...spent cases flying in all directions including between the shooter's eyes. This would be determined to be an extractor issue but Walther changed the mags a bit to the short slot version in an attempt to correct ejection direction. It didn't work but the five I had did all sorts of weird things....like, poor ejection, letting a round jump out of the pistol while cycling as the second round was chambered.

Shortly thereafter they sent me five B suffix numbered mags to test. This is the one pictured to the left of the short slot. It returned to A mag long slot style but is made of slightly thicker and stronger steel. Any of these works fine in any P22.

Up until 2009 two magazines were furnished with the pistol...2009 saw the pistol arrive with one magazine only. Hard times had come to stay. But, the magazine did not change and they worked fine. Then I'm a bit hazy, nothing significant changed regarding the mags but the A and B were dropped. I think this might have started at either the end of the Original pistol run or with the introduction of the Q model. The magazines retained the same long slots but now had a number stamped into the bottom of body of the mag. Mine don't match the serial number of my pistol so I assume it is a part number of some kind. In any event other than a bit of different detail on the nose of the pinky extension....P99 vs PPQ style stippling, the mags are the same and still function 100% for me. Somewhere in there Walther began including two mags again. Way back the pistol would come with a flat base mag and an extended base mag. It seems the extended base plate was much more popular and I think the flat one might have been dropped. Seems my QD came with two mags...both with the extended base and Q style stippling on the nose.

Yes, I cut up about 10 old short slot mags with the intention of spot brazing them into a couple of 50 round mags just for fun. Never finished that bit of foolishness but then I decided to either widen or narrow the lips on a couple of short slot mags.....the mags then began to function properly. I have a picture of that so I will post it. 1917

https://i.imgur.com/oH8pWGuh.jpg

1917-1911M 02-03-2018 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milgunsguy (Post 10379441)
My P-22, serial A006xxx, came with clips marked "Made in Germany 265 93 36", no letter. These fed 8 rounds or less just fine but wouldn't feed 9 or 10. I called Walther and they mailed me two marked the same but with "A" added to the marking and short slots added to both sides of the top of the mags. These feed 10. One of the best guns I have owned.

Your pistol should feed with 10 rounds in the mag. I do pull the follower down and bounce the stack to make them stagger properly. 9 or 10 rounds do add a bit more up pressure on the top two rounds and bottom of the breech rail but the pistol should cycle and feed. What is happening? Slide stopping, misfeeds... Are these the originals with no stagger slots. We need a new picture of one if you have one. I have a fuzzy picture only that I got off the net years ago. 1917


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