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-   -   Self Defense with .22’s. Pro’s & Con’s (https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1161781)

Oldmountain2 05-24-2019 04:06 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I carry a .22 as primary self defense weapon.
OK. Now that I have come clean....
Why? You may be asking. I have asked that, too. Lots.
I have used .40 auto, couple of .357 S&W’s. All very good and reliable.
Thoughts......
1. I am NOT police or military. I really want the BG (bad guy) to change his (or her) intention & go away. Unlike the police, I don’t want to ‘acquire’ the BG.
2. According to research by Dr. Gary Kleck, 90% of attack are stopped simply by the presence of a gun. Any gun. In 5% of encounters the gun is fired. In the other 5% the BG is shot.
1st Rule: HAVE A GUN.
3. Why is there a failure in self defense?
Quote:
‘But in those cases when an armed citizen is killed or seriously injured, it’s often at least partly because of one of the following issues:
A. The gun was inaccessible and they couldn’t get it out quickly enough.
B. They were able to retrieve the gun but it wasn’t ready to be fired — either there was no round in the chamber or a manual safety was engaged and they couldn’t disengage it in time.
C. They managed to fire shots at the threat but either missed completely or hit a non-vital area.
D. The gun malfunctioned after firing and they could not clear it before being overwhelmed by their attacker.’

(Source: https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/w...ocket-pistols/ )

OK..... Rule #1 (part 2) HAVE A GUN that always works and have skills to use it.

4. Ammo. Are .22’s unreliable? Cheep bulk boxes, maybe. But I have never had a dud, even in a S&W 317 with reduced strength main & rebound springs. Much much better DA trigger, too. OK, I did sent 8 CCI Quik Shok rounds through both washer & dryer. All fired, though 2 required a second hit! Auto pistols require more thoughtful feeding.

5. I accidentally lit off a .357 after I had removed my ear protection, outdoors. My ears rang for days! The thought of setting one off in a hallway really requires guts. One shot and I would be both deaf and muzzle flash blinded. Follow up shot is very problematic. .22’s allows multiple shots.

The highest rated ammo for defense is CCI 32gr Quik Shok. (segmented). My crony registered 1085 FPS from 2” & 1100 from 3” barrels.

They meet the 90% rule: plan first for the most probable situation, not the outliers.

Look forward to reading your input.
Many Thanks

LorenatBMS 05-24-2019 04:44 PM

i don't carry a 22lr but I agree the key is to carry, regardless of caliber.

squirrelsniper 05-24-2019 04:49 PM

A 22 is sure better than nothing, but if you run across an assailant that's high on meth or PCP, you probably aren't going to stop him with a 22LR.

Doc25 05-24-2019 05:12 PM

While you cover the have gun part, I've seen a lot of live police shows where people take multiple 9mm hits and keep going. Really makes you doubt stopping power of handguns.

Oldmountain2 05-24-2019 05:28 PM

Stopping Power is a very difficult & controversial problem. ‘Lethally’ is one aspect. ‘Incapacitation’ another. ‘Stopping the assault’ a third.
The old saying: A hand gun is to give you time to get your shotgun. Is true.
As is : a .22 in the hand is better than a .45 in the drawer at home.

Oldmountain2 05-24-2019 05:31 PM

PS I might be able to gat a ‘head’ shot with more control. They are 90% assault stoppers regardless of caliber.

ms6852 05-24-2019 05:51 PM

There is one problem that I see in carrying a 22lr as the primary self defense gun. That one problem is reliability. You may get a round that will result in a failure to fire especially if you are on a budget. I recommend that if this is your primary weapon, make sure you buy top tier ammo like eley, lapua, rws, or some that will definitely be more reliable than the cheaper ammo.

Otherwise in my opinion the pros are plenty, recoil is very minimal allowing for more precise accurate hits, and follow up shots are quicker, just my 2¢.

flangster 05-24-2019 06:35 PM

We do a thread like this every couple of years, and there are always interesting anecdotes and points of view that emerge. Personally, I have developed a lot of respect for the .22 LR round. When I set up my first home range, my backstop was four sheets of 3/4 inch plywood pressed together and set with sandbags against a rise in my neighbor's land. A .22 round didn't even pause going through that stuff. Just drilled a hole through all four pieces. Can't say whether the round will meet anyone's home defense need -- that's really based on so many factors that have nothing to do intrinsically with the cartridge.

Here's hoping none of you all definitively have to find out an answer to the OP's question . . .

NMC_EXP 05-24-2019 07:11 PM

pro: a .22 is slightly better than throwing rocks.

con: a .22 is slightly better than throwing rocks.

Seems to me this question should not even be asked by anyone who owns or can afford to own a centerfire firearm of any caliber or type.

If a .22 is all you can afford, practice until you can do head shots 99% of the time.

If that is not a viable option, dial 911 and hope for the best.

As your remains slowly assume room temperature, be comforted by the fact that the cops always have plenty of chalk and yellow tape to delineate the crime scene a half hour after you call for help.

BobSc 05-24-2019 07:14 PM

The problem with any self defense weapon isn't the weapon or the caliber- it is the shooter. Can the shooter (you), get off a well aimed shot, quickly- while under extreme duress- as in being rushed, attacked, yelled at or shot at, and having your life in danger.
From anecdotal evidence, most people can't meet this one criteria. It not only takes an extreme amount of practice to develop the muscle memory to be able to draw quickly, fire quickly and accurately, and maintain a defensive posture while the world is crashing down around you in milliseconds. Obviously, a reliable weapon is absolutely essential- but the one thing many don't/won't have is the cold blooded willingness to kill to defend themselves or others. That is the one thing you probably won't be able to practice for and can't anticipate until the moment arrives. A few already know where that line is but very few have ever been faced with this situation and even momentary indecision can and will cost you dearly.

IMO, cartridge you are firing is a bit down the list as long as it will penetrate sufficiently to incapacitate and give you time to get away or stand your ground and defend yourself as the situation presents itself...

Bob

Oldmountain2 05-24-2019 07:23 PM

Thank you, Bob. The mind set to fight until the aggression stops is absolutely central.
Studies show that people that resist are injured LESS. Good info for our daughters, wives, sons, too.

Randy99CL 05-24-2019 07:57 PM

Guy on FB mentioned that his nightstand gun is a snubby .22lr. I ticked him off when I stated he might be better off with something more powerful.
He tried to quote studies showing the 22lr is deadly and I pointed out that they weren't fired from such a short barrel.

Whatever happened to the idea of trying to prepare for the "worst case" scenario?

You can hope that seeing the gun will scare him away.
If you have to shoot, you can hope you hit your target in a spot that will take him out of the fight. And if you do hit him there, you can pray that your bullet has enough energy to put him down.

When my 5.5" 22/45 Target (with red dot) was my only pistol I kept it loaded with stingers for home protection. Now I have a number of 9mms to choose from but WTH, I load 180g Hydra-Shoks into my 10mm 1911. Why mess around with something that might do the job??

squirrelsniper 05-24-2019 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldmountain2 (Post 11491769)
PS I might be able to gat a ‘head’ shot with more control. They are 90% assault stoppers regardless of caliber.

Way easier said than done, because attackers generally won't just stand there while you aim.

David Valdina 05-24-2019 08:23 PM

Might want to use the 60 gr. from Aguila.
 
The 60 gr. SSS from Aguila up close will give you more penetration than the lighter bullets. If you are using a revolver you might alternate cylinder chambers with a high speed hollow point. The S&W 43C is an 8 shot J-Frame Centennial and if carrying a .22 long rifle revolver would be a good choice.

And if you want to upgrade for better protection in the same size package, choose a .22 magnum revolver with the Hornady 45 gr. FTX Critical Defense ammo. The S&W 351C is a 7 shot J-Frame Centennial revolver and would be my first choice in this category of handguns.

flylo 05-24-2019 08:46 PM

Would you stand & let someone shoot a 22 at you? Didn't think so. I carry a bigger Hi-cap pistol; but bought a new Walther ppk in 22 which carries 11 rds plus an extra mag. For 30 years I carried & still do sometimes a NAA 22lr in a pocket change purse fits in any pocket with 5 stingers. At 10 yards I can put them all in a pie plate. Now I added a tiny laser & the fold out handle which clips in my watch pocker & looks like a knife. I shot can change the situation or not. The Army says if a bullet will shoot thru a 1/2" pine board it's considered lethal. A 22lr rifle will do it at 440 yards. I've heard more people have been killed by 22s not counting wartime but it IS the shooter & not the caliber IMHO. I never want to kill anyone, just defuse the situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMC_EXP (Post 11491859)
pro: a .22 is slightly better than throwing rocks.

con: a .22 is slightly better than throwing rocks.

Seems to me this question should not even be asked by anyone who owns or can afford to own a centerfire firearm of any caliber or type.

If a .22 is all you can afford, practice until you can do head shots 99% of the time.

If that is not a viable option, dial 911 and hope for the best.

As your remains slowly assume room temperature, be comforted by the fact that the cops always have plenty of chalk and yellow tape to delineate the crime scene a half hour after you call for help.



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