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  #1  
Old 02-26-2010, 05:04 PM
Joshua M. Smith
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The Deal With Mark II Magazines

Hello,

I do all my own work on my guns.

A while back, I got a Mk II BTVS. Pretty good rifle though the barrel wasn't freefloated like it was intended to be - so I fixed it.

After making Rifleman at Appleseed with a 10/22, I broke out the Mk II for some fun. I didn't have any extra mags, so I was loaned some 10 round mags, and dang near shot a perfect score - with a bolt gun yet!

After the Appleseed shoot, I went to buy my own magazines. Imagine my disappointment when the new magazines were junk. Only my 5 round mag works correctly.

I have a background in combat handgunning, and I find this unacceptable.

So, I took the 10 round magazines apart.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered that they are just a downsized, curved (for the rims) version of the 1911 magazine!

I checked the feeding, and sure enough, it's a controlled feed, just like the 1911 pistol.

Better yet, the magazine springs are modeled after the 1911 magazine springs.

I tweaked a few things and got better reliability out of them, but still not 100%. This occurs in 1911 pistols as well when you go with a larger-than-normal magazine size. Just the nature of the beast.

However, these should still work. The follower is a poor design but can be tweaked. What's really needed are good springs - these are by far the worst springs I've seen in a stock magazine. They are almost like Bic pen springs in quality!

Stretching them and giving them a lil' twist upward work for one or two mag fulls - then the spring settles back to its stock length.

What we really need is a good quality, heavy duty spring.

I'm sure Wolff makes something like this. If not, they need to. I need your collective help to find a heavier duty spring. It would look like a 1911 spring and likely be in either a conversion kit for the 1911 or in a Ruger .22 autopistol - I'm guessing. I'm also thinking that Llama made some smaller Government-type model pistols in .22 - these may work.

I've never owned an automatic .22 as I'm a lefty and they just now started making them. However, if you happen to have a magazine for, say, a .22/45 laying around and want to compare springs, it would be appreciated.

Mostly though, the magazines are junk. And that sucks because the rifles are very nice. Skimping on the magazine though will almost always kill reliability.

If we make enough noise, I'm sure somebody - perhaps even Mec-Gar - would pick up manufacture of aftermarket mags which are not sub-par quality.

Just some random thoughts... and I got another idea for a mag, so I'm gonna go try it out.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Josh
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  #2  
Old 02-26-2010, 05:27 PM
Joshua M. Smith
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Ok... EUREKA!

I sacrificed one of my 10 round mags, interposed the springs, and modifed the follower to be more 1911-like on the bottom and front.

It works like a $30 magazine now - which, when you think about it, is what it is! LOL

I wonder if we can get just the springs... putting the springs togther will solve the feeding problems 100%.

Don't like sacrificing a magazine to do this though.

Josh
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2010, 06:52 PM
doublechaz

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Here is a thread I started to talk about my fix for the 10rd mags. I've had good success this way.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=281308

This way you won't have to scavenge springs to have half as many mags.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:00 PM
StretchMaK
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"After making Rifleman at Appleseed with a 10/22, I broke out the Mk II for some fun... ...and dang near shot a perfect score - with a bolt gun yet!"

I sold my 10/22s after I bought a MkII.
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  #5  
Old 02-26-2010, 07:26 PM
Joshua M. Smith
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Yeah, mine's gone as well.

Just bought it for Appleseed.

Josh
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  #6  
Old 02-26-2010, 07:30 PM
Joshua M. Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublechaz View Post
Here is a thread I started to talk about my fix for the 10rd mags. I've had good success this way.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=281308

This way you won't have to scavenge springs to have half as many mags.
Hello,

I tried something similar in the beginning, and in fact, used your method for modifying the follower. I was still getting malfunctions near the end of the mag though.

The fact remains that these mags are just underspring. It's probably a cost cutting measure and one that's starting to give Savage a bad name.

Josh
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  #7  
Old 02-26-2010, 08:28 PM
1911CCW
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I have heard from other posters that you can call Savage and they will exchange the malfunctioning mags. Ususally the only charge is shipping to the factory.
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  #8  
Old 02-26-2010, 09:40 PM
King Ghidora
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I have 3 Savage (2 10's - 1 5) mags and all work perfectly. I've never had the slightest problem with any of them. Maybe they will some day but right now I don't see anything wrong with the design.
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  #9  
Old 02-26-2010, 11:01 PM
ShelbyFan

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I have been trying to tune mine in for awhile. The first four rounds feed fine and the fifth hits the bottom of the chamber and puts a ding in the bullet, not an issue for plinking or small game use, but the rifle is a completely custom rifle I am using for bench work, so that ding is super bad.

Joshua M Smith gave me an idea, I have a couple of older Savage 23AA/19NRA mags that work very well. I pulled the springs out and noticed that the 23AA spring were a touch shorter but stiffer than the MK2 spring. Swapped the spring into the MK2 and a touch of adjustment of the feed lips and no more dings.

I wonder if we can get our hands on some Anschutz springs and followers.
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  #10  
Old 02-27-2010, 06:30 AM
p15camborne

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I solved my magazine problems. I traded my MKII for a MKI. Also went from plastic stock to wood.
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  #11  
Old 02-27-2010, 10:47 AM
Joshua M. Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911CCW View Post
I have heard from other posters that you can call Savage and they will exchange the malfunctioning mags. Ususally the only charge is shipping to the factory.
Yeah, but the point I guess is that they shouldn't be choking anyway.

If I look at this from my defensive handgunning point of view, this is totally unacceptable.

There was a similar problem with the 1911 in the '70s and '80s: The then-available, mostly GI magazines could not reliably feed these newfangled hollowpoint bullets coming out.

A man named Bill Wilson redesigned the magazine, and I have yet to get his #47 magazines to choke. They're also used by the MEU in their 1911 pistols due to their reliability.

The same needs to be done for these magazines, but like I said, they are a good design, poorly implemented.

Josh
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  #12  
Old 02-27-2010, 10:48 AM
ShelbyFan

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Quote:
Originally Posted by p15camborne View Post
I solved my magazine problems. I traded my MKII for a MKI. Also went from plastic stock to wood.
I had just as bad feeding issues with the mk1. I found that unless the bullet was put in just right it would get caught on top of the single shot adapter and jam the bolt. That piece of plastic they use for the feed ramp is a joke.
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  #13  
Old 02-27-2010, 01:09 PM
doublechaz

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My mags are all somewhat older. Maybe they have switched to less capable springs. That would be too bad. It's always a downward spiral to cut costs on a working platform until it builds a bad reputation.
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:05 PM
IPSC

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Joshua Smith ( and doublechaz)... I have taken up your challenge ( although I'm coming in VERY late on this thread !!)...

...you want to find stout magazine springs to try out.

Well....the Ruger autopistol that you suggest won't work because they use a coil spring ( as many other rimfire mags use) placed in the very front of the mag. You want a coil spring that is wound square/oblong, like the Colt .45 magazine spring. Precious few guns do it this way.

Tonite I dug deep into the Numrich arms catalogue, alongside the Hoosier Arms catalogue to find something to try. Here it is--->

Smith and Wesson M22A/M22s mag, rather recent production, 10 shot. Here is the picture---> http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/images/sw_22a.jpg Notice the style of mag spring that we want, somewhat square-wound to fit the inside dimensions of a 22LR mag housing.

And from the Numrich catalogue, the mag spring is part number #185840 ... cost is $6.75 plus shipping. Since shipping may cost a lot, may want to order maybe 4 right away, even as a test.---->

schematic--> http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufact...M22A-35312.htm

Scroll down the schematic page to part reference 21...there it is.

Since this was made for a 10 rd mag, it may work for the 10 rd Savage "as-is", and it may need to be cut-down some for the 5 rd mag. But be advised, I've been on such a path before. As long as the follower has enough length of its "legs" below the follower itself to avoid full spring compression after loading 5 ( in the 5 rd mag) .... you may just as well use the full length spring, at least as a first test.

Good luck,....let me know how it goes, as I am looking to buy a MKII myself. Success here will sway me toward the MKII instead of going to a Marlin XT-22.

Last edited by IPSC; 12-08-2012 at 08:36 AM. Reason: grammar
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  #15  
Old 12-08-2012, 06:29 AM
RRags
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Another late query here

IPSC-- new to this part of RFC forum as I just purchased Mall TV with fluted bull barrel. The accuracy is unbelievable and I had thought my slightly modded 10/22TD's were accurate. So, the problem with the ten round mags persists? No way to buy a good functioning ten rounder? The supplied five round mag works well but would like to have a ten round or two. Rick

PS--perhaps we've resurrected this thread r
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