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  #1  
Old 11-29-2008, 09:39 AM
Autopilotmp
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Pretravel on 22A

Anyone have any ideas for a pretravel screw for the 22A? I was thinking about attempting to install one on mine and haven't found anything anywhere on doing this for this pistol. Was thinking about drilling through the frame from the top and tapping so i could put a small set screw in above the top part of the trigger. Other than sticking something to the top of the trigger I thought this might be the only way.

Thought i would ask, surley some of the ruger tinkerers own one of these as well (i have a MKII, 22/45, and 10/22). Figured i would work on this since there is now snow on the ground and it looks like i won't shoot til the weather changes again (or at least the holiday season is over). Think about it and we will see what we come up with. Can always replace the trigger but don't wanna drill too much on the frame.
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2008, 09:52 PM
Autopilotmp
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If anyone is interested I'm going to start this project tomorrow. So far i have picked up some blue thread lock, a couple stainless set screw sockets (#6-32x1/4"), and a 7/64 drill bit. I still have to get the #6-32 tap and the courage to take the drill to my gun. These were the smallest set screws home depot had wish they were a little shorter but i think they will work out fine. Like i said if anyone is interested i'm going to take pics of the work and a short how to (or how not to). Guess i'll see you guys tomorrow....GULP!
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2008, 04:56 PM
Autopilotmp
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well the hole has been drilled and tapped. I ran into a couple snags along the way. Long story short i ended up having to drill a hole through the trigger guard so that i could tap the hole from the outside since i had to drill through the angled inside part of the frame. But it turned out looking great, just finished my cleaning of the frame so that no shavings were left behind. Will post my a pic of the completed project and if anyone wants to know the specifics on how to accomplish this let me know. later...
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2008, 06:08 PM
LDBennett
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PRE-TRAVEL???

Are you attempting to remove the creep from the trigger pull?

The accepted way is to do a trigger job which reduces the amount of engagement of the sear and hammer. A common trigger job either removes part of the hammer engagement ledge or material on the sear so that the amount of engagement of the hammer and sear is only about 0.020 inches or sometimes even less than that.

Your way works too but the work is visible from the outside of the gun whereas a trigger job is all internal. Yours allows simple adjustments whereas a real trigger job may take a few iterative attempts.

Be carefull not to adjust your trigger too close or a bump will set the gun off. When you test it start with a round in the chamber and a round in the magazine. Fire one shot and verify that it does not double (shoot the second shot automatically before you release the trigger). Keep testing by adding one more round to the magazine each time to be sure it will never double.

You may want to consider adding a screw to the trigger to stop it from traveling any after the gun fires. A tirgger with no creep that breaks crisply by lightly loading it and travels no extra amount is considered an excellent trigger. But if you do add the over travel screw make sure to adjust it so that the trigger ALWAYS resets even when the gun is hot or cold. Ususally that point is about a half to one quarter turn from the point in the adjustment where the pistol will just not go off with a pull of the trigger.

I have never seen a trigger modified the way you did it on a pistol but I have seen it on a rifle before.

LDBennett
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2008, 06:46 PM
Autopilotmp
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Here is what i did and what i was trying to accomplish. I wanted to get rid of all the travel in the trigger before the sear was actually engaged by the trigger bar. The only way i could find to do this on this particular pistol was to add an adjustable set screw that would prevent the trigger from returning all the way to the frame.

I understand and am aware that once the trigger has been pulled and the hammer falls that the trigger has to return a little past the point where the trigger initially engages the sear so that the sear and hammer will reset properly. Thus keeping the hammer from falling from failure to properly engage the sear. As stated before on this particular firearm the only way i could deduce to accomplish this goal since 1) the trigger is plastic (ugh) an 2) there is no place to put a set screw in the trigger below the trigger pin that it pivots on.

I would like to have left all the work internally but unfortunately I didn't figure a way to do that. Unlike the ruger triggers on the Mk series pistols there wasn't adequate surface to work with on the trigger its self. So here are the pics.





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  #6  
Old 11-30-2008, 08:07 PM
LDBennett
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I see!

Your intent is not to eliminating creep but the play in the mechanism before you start to move the sear. That's interesting, but if you adjust the screw more you may be able to eliminate some of the creep too, if you want. But make sure the trigger can reset if you do.

My 22S has a pretty nice trigger but I really don't remember if I did a trigger job on it or not (??). These area nice guns for the money. I actually gave my 7 inch 22S to my daughter years ago. I tried to replace it recently and they quit making the long barrel. So I took it back from my daughter and got her the cammo version she really wanted. She's happpy and I'm happy. But I do like the gun and I have over 9 other 22LR taget pistol including a S&W Model 41.

I wish you good shooting!

LDBennett
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2008, 09:42 PM
Autopilotmp
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exactly a little creep i can handle, that extremely long take-up before the trigger bar even starts to engage the sear is what i was getting rid of. And it worked great, made final adjustments after applying some blue threadlock. I have a box of dummy ammo (hole drilled through the bottom so they cannot be confused with live, purchased as dummy ammo) that i used to test the trigger on. Trigger resets properly wether the trigger is held in rearward position or released prior to the hammer being in the cocked position. Really turned out good. Will fill the hole i had to drill in the trigger guard prior to putting on a coat of Duracoat.
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:40 PM
Autopilotmp
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Took the gun out to the range today and all i have to say is WOW!! What a difference that made, i don't miss the extra take-up at all. I realize you could just train yourself to only allow the trigger to travel far enough to reset the sear but with this all i have to do is keep my finger from leaving the trigger and it is right there ready to break the next shot. Wonderful. If you are interested i might be able to salvage some of my pics that I took during the project but i just couldn't get the camera to focus right. If anyone is interested i will get a little how to put together possibly tomorrow. Great mod.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2008, 11:26 PM
Mossbergman
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your how to pics sound good, don't sound like a hard job. --JMJ--
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  #10  
Old 12-07-2008, 07:55 AM
LDBennett
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Autopilotmp:

While it is important to you (and the rest of the American shooting fraternity, it seems) to have all the pretravel out of the trigger, the Europeans and military gun designers want that pretravel in there. When a trigger has pretravel it is called a two stage trigger. What you have is a single stage trigger.

I used to think that I liked single stage triggers and saw no use for pre-travel. Then I bought a couple of European precision target pistols and rilfes with the European two stage triggers and now I think that to be the best system going....as long as there is a marked difference in the pull level at the stage transistion. Mine are totally adjustable and I try to set them up with a one pound first stage pull level that goes to two pounds for the second and breaking stage. I think it is safer that way as a light single stage trigger pull in the two pound and less range is very easy to set off accidentally when you are not quite centered on the target and just adjusting your finger to find the trigger. But that's just me. I'm sure you will enjoy your Buckmark as you have it setup. I just wanted you to be aware that "there is more than one way to skin a cat".

LDBennett
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  #11  
Old 12-07-2008, 11:39 AM
Autopilotmp
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Smile

LDBennet:

You are correct it is (wether the inteded it or not) a two stage trigger. Some people may like that, but like you stated most americans don't. Also the idea is to let you know you are about to the point of moving the sear to break the shot. Since my gun has a 4# trigger pull (I am completly happy with that amount) and on this particular gun percision shooting is not the intent, the first stage (aka creep or drag) is unwanted because i desire a quick follow up with minimal creep and the heavy trigger keeps me from squezing off the next shot before i'm on target. And most people that were shooting percise shots would probably desire a two stage trigger if they ever shot one that was tuned properly, case in point i love my buddies gun he uses for IHMSA it has a wonderful two stage trigger that breaks clean and light for extremely accurate shooting. Thank you for pointing this out as most wouldn't realize the significance or purpose of the trigger having been made this way.

Mossbergman:

No it wasn't very complicated. Not sure how good my pics will be since if i had it to do over again i would do it differently. But i will post my pics and then tell how i did it as well as comment on the way i should have done it. Maybe if one of my friends wants this done i can take pics of the way i do theirs and post them as well.

Last edited by Autopilotmp; 12-07-2008 at 12:14 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2008, 11:17 PM
Autopilotmp
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Editor Note: Some of these modifications may be too difficult for some readers. Attempt at your own risk as I will not be responsible for any damage you may do to your pistol. Results may vary.

here are some of my during photos. It was pretty easy to do really. First i used my micrometer to find the center of the frame (A) and marked it on the portion that the barrel rides on (B). Then I made a mark where the front of the trigger ends on the inside of the trigger guard (E). Then i split the distance from the opening where the trigger sticks down through the frame to the mark for the end of the trigger and made a mark there. I then took a measurement from the back of the mag well to front edge of the trigger hole (C). I then marked measurment C and measurement E on the top edge of the frame to give me guidline for my drilling.




The spot that the drill actually starts to drill is just below the hole for the take down button, on a slant towards the trigger opening. What I did then was clamped the frame in a vice on the drill press (see the pics 3 and 4). Making sure the frame was level with the drill press i used a large drill bit think it had a letter C on it it was approx the same size as the hole that runs horizontaly for the take down button. Using this bit i drilled just enough to make a relatively flat space for my small bit (7/64) to start without crawling. Then i changed bits and made sure that my frame was level again and that my bit was centered on line B and between my two marks on the side of the frame (closer to the forward most wich would be equal to mark E). Then drilling with the 7/64 bit slowly as to make sure the bit did not crawl i drilled through the frame. Unfortunately you must continue to drill all the way down through your trigger guard. This was something i had to go back and do because i found that tapping the hole from the top wasn't possible because i had to drill on the angled part of the frame. You will have to flip the frame and enlarge the hole in the trigger guard for your tap to fit through.




Now with that through I used my #6-32 tap and a tap handle i tapped the hole from the bottom through the trigger guard. Then i cleaned the hole good and threaded my set screw from the top so it could be easily adjusted without removing the trigger. After a complete cleaning and reassembling the gun i adjusted it close to where it needed to be then removed counting turns from until flush with trigger guard. I then removed it and applied blue lock tight and reinstalled to the position as close as possible then checked function adjusting it until all creep was removed and the sear/hammer would reset. Finally i put it completely back together and inserted a magazine with 4 or 5 DUMMY rounds and cycled the gun doing complete functions checks. Once i was satisfied the trigger would reset properly I put the gun away until I had a chance to live fire test the gun.

Last edited by Autopilotmp; 12-14-2008 at 09:31 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-21-2009, 04:14 PM
PaulC
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Hi,

I want to try this mod. So I went to remove the trigger, pushed out the pin holding the trigger spring and realized in a "DOOAAAAA!" moment that I had not noted how the spring was installed. I know that the end of the spring w/ the right angle catches the mechanism to move the sear, but cannot figure out how/where the other end was installed. And how to get it back in with the necesssary tension.

Any help is appreciated.

Paul
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2009, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
Hi,

I want to try this mod. So I went to remove the trigger, pushed out the pin holding the trigger spring and realized in a "DOOAAAAA!" moment that I had not noted how the spring was installed. I know that the end of the spring w/ the right angle catches the mechanism to move the sear, but cannot figure out how/where the other end was installed. And how to get it back in with the necesssary tension.

Any help is appreciated.

Paul
Hi--
the spring has two ends, one of them has a bend in it. The bent end faces downward and catches on the shelf or ledge on the lower backside of the trigger. The spring end without the bend is what hooks on the silver part (called the trigger bar.) To repeat: the BENT end of the spring hooks on the trigger backside. The straight end of the spring hooks on the trigger bar. Hope that helps a little!
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  #15  
Old 03-21-2009, 11:10 PM
Autopilotmp
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Bingo! Thanks mark22, would have gotten to this sooner but was out plowing through some federal ammo...making music with some steel targets, man that's fun.

PaulC - if your still stuck i'll post a pic later. angle goes down, straight goes up on that spring.
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