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  #1  
Old 11-04-2007, 02:59 PM
ToxicSports

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Evolution of the modified Aguila SSS...my way.

OK gang,

as you who have read the "perfect 22" thread know that the outcome was some modified SSS cartridges.

Now, I'm not calling anyone out but they haven't provided ANY real evidence in their testing. Just numbers so it's all hearsay until they can prove they have the ammo they talk about. (Being sarcastic guys no offense)

So I decided to start my own thread on modified SSS ammo and we can see what it can do.

OK so let's get on with the show.


Evolution of the SSS bullet

The first phase.
Wadcutter SSS. The bullet weighs in the 47gr range. At this AOL the bullet is still able to sit in the Biathlon Basic's rifling.


Here are a few pics comparing the SSS at 25yrds out of my CZ Varmint. I will shoot a comparison out of the BB ASAP.

5 shots of factory unmodified


5 shots wadcutter


Not too dang shabby.

Second phase.
To mate the Wadcutter SSS to a LR case. I used four Aguila Interceptor cases and powder loads but two of the case mouth's were damaged and gave loose crimps so I replaced them with two Russian cases and simply replaced the Russian powder with the Mexican powder.

SSS Wadcutter LR


SSS wadcutter LR OAL 7/8"


Now, the Wadcutter SSS bullets WILL NOT load from certain magazines nor in certain chambers. I say certain because I'm sure there are some rifles that probably could do it just none of mine. The flat nose is just to...well...flat. I need to hand load them into the chamber to work.

Third phase.
A longer and heavier version that would still allow the use of single stack magazines yet have a rounder profile to aid in feeding.

These weigh in the 55gr range.


Here's the OAL of the heavier cartridge. 15/16"


Here are two loaded into two different single stack magazines.

CZ


Biathlon Basic


I tried to see if the guns would feed this profile and yes, the strip them from the magazines and will feed them but I DID NOT close the bolts all the way. Being reloaded ammo the bullets will have a tendency to pull out of the cases I didn't want that to happen.

The question is WILL they be accurate? The only way to find out is to shoot them and see. Now, they will be sitting in the rifling a bit further so I will stick with my CZ Varmint's sporter chamber since it's not AS short as the Biathlon Basic's match chamber.

Now for 25yrds the difference was night and day for the "factory" wadcutters.

Either way, since ARMSCOR is helping me make a 22LR CB style bullet maybe they would be interested in developing a heavy wadcutter design as well?

TS


Last edited by ToxicSports; 02-02-2008 at 12:49 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2007, 09:40 PM
ToxicSports

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I'd like to try a PACO tool but when you don't have one it's pretty hard to use one.

This experiment is pretty much that an experiment. Anyone can make the wadcutters with an exacto knife and about 10 seconds. That's all it's taking me to cut the tips off.

It takes about 30 seconds to pull both bullets and load the SSS in the Aguila cases.

I know a whack with a hammer is faster but again, I can form all the ammo I want with my imagination yet it still won't work.

I agree that I would love to have a heavier bullet but, lighter or not, getting hit with one of these wadcutters isn't going to be pretty. I'm going to put a hurt on groundhogs getting fat for winter with these. Besides, 47gr is still heavier than anything currently made.

The heavy Lapua ammo that is still on the market is drying up extremely fast and won't be around long.

I'm going to get the PACO and swager tools this winter so I can play with more ammo for next spring. Until then I'll just keep on experimenting with all the tools I have. I guess you could call it Guerrilla ammo mods.

TS

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  #3  
Old 11-04-2007, 10:53 PM
Corsica Coatings
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TS.

Great start!!!

I have been playing with my Paco tool on Aguila 38 gr SE subs and the "dish" tool seems to make them expand a bit more. I also tried it on the SSS, but I didn't see too much gain in my 1 in 9" twist 10/22 barrel, accuracy wise. Haven't checked expandtion yet.

Keep up the good work!!

CC
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  #4  
Old 11-10-2007, 08:22 PM
ToxicSports

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OK,

here's more info on the SSS wadcutters.

All the targets were shot at 25yrds and like all rifles they either like ammo or despise it. However, you will notice that the huge flat nose slows down the SSS. To paraphrase a reloader/wildcat designer and hunter who once told me..."The BC of a wadcutter might suck but it hits like a sledge hammer at close range."

Rifle: Remington 597...unsuppressed. I actually shot these last and had put up the chrony and cleaned up the area. I have problems with the short cases staying in the receiver so I really wasn't expecting to shoot this test due to knowing the problems. If I had the intentions of shooting them today I would have shot them over the chrony as well.

Factory SSS


OK, now the SSS wadcutter



Rifle: Biathlon Basic...unsuppressed

Factory SSS

Velocities:
936.9
945.3
926.1
931.7
969.9

SSS wadcutter

Velocities:
836.7
940.4
971.2
888.3
869.8

Then I tested the 22lr SSS wadcutters against the Aguila Interceptors

Interceptor

Velocities:
1472.0
1440.7
1450.2
1493.8
1463.2

Interceptor SSS Wadcutter

Velocities:
1460.5
1444.6
1452.3
1473.5
1493.3

Rifle: CZ Ultra Lux

Factory SSS

Velocities:
874.3
896.2
875.2
888.5
871.0

Wadcutter SSS

Velocities:
769.7
785.2
768.1
852.4
737.4


Aguila Interceptor

Velocities:
1469.0
1423.3
1451.0
1466.3
1426.4

22LR SSS wadcutter

Velocities:
1392.4
1422.1
1451.0
1432.0
1421.2


Remember that all the wadcutters needed to be loaded one at a time.

The 22lr wadcutters were sitting in the rifling and made closing the Ultra Lux's bolt very hard. That's a given and wasn't a surprise. The Biathlon Basic's toggle bolt was much easier to close with them. Also, the factory SSS wadcutters are still long enough to sit in the BB's grooves.

I doubt I'll be loading anymore 22lr wadcutters but this was fun to say the least. I'll still shoot the factory SSS wadcutters since it only takes several seconds to make them and I have a lot to play with.

I'll need play with them more but so far the results are pretty positive more or less for the factory SSS wadcutters for certain rifles. The 22lr wadcutters....well.....let's just say that a wadcutter hitting a groundhog, feral cat or any other vermin at 25yrds (and less) that's flying at over 1400fps would be hurting.

Then again.....anything past 25yrds might get hit in the butt while I'm aiming for the head if all the groups are like those I had today.


TS
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  #5  
Old 11-12-2007, 10:50 AM
ToxicSports

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OK,

I had several people ask me about the wadcutter SSS cartridges so I decided to post a HOW to.

Now first off remember that you are handling lead so just remember to wash your hands after the project.

Here we go:

Items needed:
1) Paper or other protective cover such as contact paper to protect the hard surface from the lead.

2) A thick Xacto knife or other hobby knife with a thick blade. The thicker blade won't bend or break as the thin blades would.



Step 1:

Slowly and CAREFULLY make the initial cut, around the bullet, at the top of the lube ring


Another view


Closeup---notice the paper fibers stuck to the bullet. I tried contact paper but the bullet slips too much and it's harder to cut on.



Step 2:

With moderate pressure "Roll" the bullet with the knife a couple of times, Rotate the bullet and "Roll" the bullet, rotate the bullet and roll the bullet, etc...


Here's what it will look like.


Continue until the tip pops off.


It will get a tad harder as you cut since the lead tip will fold over but you'll get the hang of it.


Now, notice the lead on the paper. When you do a box of these it gets messy and you wouldn't want that on your workbench. Clean up is a snap by simply folding the paper up and throwing it away OR in my case I take it to the farm and toss it in the burn barrel.

Now, just remember that you need to be CAREFUL!!! You're not only handling lead but you are also using a knife or other sharp object. So....if you're momma won't let you play with safety scissors you MIGHT not want to attempt this project.

TS

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  #6  
Old 11-12-2007, 07:49 PM
ToxicSports

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I can't stress how much I want to shoot these through my suppressors but I'm not going to take the chance of damaging them. Even though they shoot straight doesn't mean they will not hit the baffles as they pass through.

So...if anyone here lives in Europe or other country that allows suppressors to be bought cheaply and without any hassle want to try them through a suppressor then please let us know how they work! Just be careful though since nobody knows what will happen.

TS
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2007, 05:38 PM
yondering

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I shoot the unmodified SSS rounds suppressed with my Norinco JW-15 bolt action, they are whisper quiet. Sounds like blowing a spitwad through a straw. I haven't tried them in wadcutter form, but as I recently made up a SGB tool, I'll be trying some of those.

I'll definitely be shooting a bunch of the modified cartridges unsuppressed before I shoot them through the suppressor.

BTW, my Norinco DOES stabilize the factory SSS rounds, and puts them in one hole at 25 yds. I guess they are only marginally stabilized, as I can hear them "flutter" AFTER passing through a paper target. No flutter or sign of tumbling before bullet impact though.
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2007, 08:03 PM
ToxicSports

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yondering,

My grandfather's Remington 572 pump action stabilizes the factory unmodified SSS cartridges PERFECTLY!!!

Here's a few more mods to the SSS I've done:

Hollow points and "ballistic tips"

L-R....Birdshot "ballistic tip", EABCO HP, EABCO HP w/inkpen mod.




EABCO HP recovered from water filled milk jug at 25yrds. Went through two jugs and was sticking out the back of the third.



Modified SSS HP tools


Deep SSS HP Depth



Results from water filled milk jugs at same distance but different jugs/different day.



Comparison of both HPs.


I need to test some of the ballistic tips on milk jugs to see what happens.

Other than that hopefully I'll get my Biathlon Basic SSS project rifle started sooner than later but as things are going it's going to be awhile before that happens.

TS

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  #9  
Old 11-17-2007, 03:05 PM
ToxicSports

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OK gang,

I shot some HP wadcutters today out of my CZ Varmint. All 2 liter pop bottles were full of water with the lids off.

At 50yrds it went through one 2 liter pop bottle, entered the second and dented the back staying in the bottle. It was a little low but that's a given. I have a photo of the bullet and to be honest it didn't mushroom. The walls are too thick, and the velocity too low, to do anything.

Then, I lined up three more 2 liters, moved back to the 50yrds line and shot one of the 22LR wadcutters. Also out of the CZ Varmint.

Well, It went through all three bottles and never slowed down ending up in the hay field. Other than losing the bullet the bottles EXPLODED!!! Very nice little display.

I'll make more to test next week.

TS

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Old 11-17-2007, 10:57 PM
ToxicSports

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OK gang,

Here's the HP wadcutter:


I shot both this and the 22lr wadcutter out of my CZ Varmint.

Here's the recovered HP wadcutter.
Nose.


Heel.


It obviously tumbled through the bottles which would explain the exit hole from the first bottle and the entrance hole of the second bottle.

Again, this was into water filled 2liter pop bottles which isn't really the best targets but it's all I had. I'll try them in other media later.

I'm not sure if these would expand anymore but I'll try to come up with some scenarios.

Maybe a birdshot and some Vaseline in the HP? I'll have to play with some ideas.

Granted hitting a 2 liter pop bottle at 50yrds isn't saying much but at that same distance with a 60gr bullet I'd be lucky to get near the target let alone hit it.

TS

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Old 11-18-2007, 10:06 PM
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Going the Other Direction

How about a 20gr from a Super Colibri mated to a Stinger or Super Max case. I wonder how high the velocity will be, 2,000 fps???
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Old 11-18-2007, 10:18 PM
ToxicSports

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Quote:
How about a 20gr from a Super Colibri mated to a Stinger or Super Max case. I wonder how high the velocity will be, 2,000 fps???
frdmftr,

I'll be honest with you and everyone else and say that I really never even thought about it. It never crossed my mind at all.

I guess I'm going to need to get back to the lab...uh workshop and see if I can come up with something.

Heck, if that doesn't work then the 29gr CB bullet might get flung through the air at a pretty good velocity.

TS

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Old 11-19-2007, 10:46 AM
ToxicSports

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Well,

I tried to pull a few Colibri bullets and plop them on top of some Stinger cases but the Stinger case mouth was too big for the Colibri bullet's heel. I tried several different ways but with the same outcome.

I'll turn to my trusted go to...a Russian steel case to see if I get better results in the crimp as I have in the past with other reloads. If so then I'll play with the powder from the Interceptors and Velocitors.

OH yeah, I am ordering one of the 22 swaging die sets from Neal Waltz. He stated that he never had tried the SSS in his swager but he'll get a box to play with. Hopefully it will have a positive outcome as the PACO tool has for many people and the SSS. I'll also play with it and see if my wadcutter SSS can be formed. It doesn't hurt to experiment.


TS

Last edited by ToxicSports; 11-19-2007 at 10:49 AM.
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:13 AM
woogie_man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicSports View Post
yondering,

My grandfather's Remington 572 pump action stabilizes the factory unmodified SSS cartridges PERFECTLY!!!

Here's a few more mods to the SSS I've done:

Hollow points and "ballistic tips"

L-R....Birdshot "ballistic tip", EABCO HP, EABCO HP w/inkpen mod.




EABCO HP recovered from water filled milk jug at 25yrds. Went through two jugs and was sticking out the back of the third.



Modified SSS HP tools


Deep SSS HP Depth



Results from water filled milk jugs at same distance but different jugs/different day.



Comparison of both HPs.


I need to test some of the ballistic tips on milk jugs to see what happens.

Other than that hopefully I'll get my Biathlon Basic SSS project rifle started sooner than later but as things are going it's going to be awhile before that happens.

TS


Did you just put a bb in the tip.. or what... it looks like it really helps. How well does the bullet really fly in the rifle.... looks like it would be a really good hunting round if it mushrooms that much
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:26 PM
ToxicSports

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woogie_man,

the two photos are recovered bullets without the birdshot in the nose.

As I posted, my grandfather's 572 is the only rifle that will shoot them nose first. For some reason my CZ's shoot them just stable enough to get most of the bullets close to the POA but they are so unstable that when they do hit the target they tumble instantly.

Here's a photo of a HP SSS shot at 25yrds out of my CZ Varmint.

It looks like the bullet hit the bottle in a "controlled" tumble and it simply crushed the HP walls as it tumbled into the bottle.

I'm going to try the BB tip SSS when I can.


TS
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