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CM-2 or Anschutz?

3K views 10 replies 5 participants last post by  Vic-One 
#1 ·
I'm going to be getting a 3p target rifle within the next few weeks. My budget is right around the price of a CM-2, give or take a couple of hundred. Based on everything I've read about the CM-2, it's hovering right at the top of my list right now. My question is, how does it compare to older Anschutz 54 and 64s? Specifically, I've been looking at a bunch of the guns that Thad Scott has. They are a few hundred more, and many decades older. Anyone know how they might compare?
 
#2 ·
Let me say at the beginning that I'm going to offend someone with this. Not intended, but so be it.
I don't trust reports or pictures posted of tiny groups. I only trust what I know from being present at the shooting and here is what I have observed from shooting Smallbore Prone. Annies shoot great and so does the CM-2. While it is true that the only 400 out of 400 scores I've personally seen at matches have been shot with Annies, it is also true that the person behind the gun was the reason for the scores. With my CM-2 I'm scoring in the low to mid 390's and there has not been any instance where I could blame the rifle or ammo for my 9's. There is no way that someone with my limited experience is shooting better than the CM-2. I'm certain that my rifle is capable of posting 400's with someone better than me pulling the trigger. Position is everything and that is where the limitation is.
 
#3 ·
As much as I love my Russian firearms, if I had the choice between a CM-2 and Anschutz 54... I would go with the 54.

Not because the Cm-2 cannot shoot... But because of the lack of accessories and support for it.

A few years ago, the URAL rifle were imported in Canada.
For about 1/2 the price of a new basic Anschutz 54 free rifle. You got a complete Russian free rifle (and the accessories that goes with it!)



For not much more money over the CM-2, the Ural 6-1 is a nice rifle. It feels more like a adult size rifle, as of the CM-2 feels like a kid size rifle.
 
#4 ·
Thats a pretty good recommendation for the CM-2. It sounds like it will certainly take care of me until I get much, much better.

Now the big question is, does anyone know any place that has any in stock? I'd much prefer a new model, since they appear to be going for about the same as a used model.
 
#5 ·
SillyMike said:
As much as I love my Russian firearms, if I had the choice between a CM-2 and Anschutz 54... I would go with the 54.

Not because the Cm-2 cannot shoot... But because of the lack of accessories and support for it.

A few years ago, the URAL rifle were imported in Canada.
For about 1/2 the price of a new basic Anschutz 54 free rifle. You got a complete Russian free rifle (and the accessories that goes with it!)



For not much more money over the CM-2, the Ural 6-1 is a nice rifle. It feels more like a adult size rifle, as of the CM-2 feels like a kid size rifle.
Mike, do you know of any places that have a Ural, new or used?
 
#7 ·
Well, I've Never Been Accused of Being Shy!

Nerdlestein;

I have owned, competed with, and shot for the heck of it, 3 Anschutz M54's in different stock configurations (all bought used, 2 from Thad and 1 from MacTilton), a Walther KKM bought used from Thad, a Valmet Finnish Lion bought used from Mac, a Suhl 150 Standard ordered through Davidson's when they 1st got them, a 1950's Vostok Cm-2 also ordered from Davidson's, and a Ural 6-1 barreled action from Davidson's stocked in McMillan fiberglass for BR.

I currently own, compete with and shoot a 1956 Russian Tula Arsenal MU-12 with DST (2 oz) bought from Mac, a 1958 Ural with a steel-sleeved bedded barrel block and the rest of the action and barrel floating with DST (2 oz) bought from Mac, a 1954 BRNO Model 4 with tuned trigger that I am building a BR stock for that I bought off GunsAmerica, a 1953 1st generation Vostok CM-2 that I built as a BR gun for my wife and got from Mac, a 1960's 2nd generation Vostok CM-2 that I just picked-up locally, and another Anschutz M54 in prone stock that I got from Thad. I am waiting for delivery on another completely original Suhl 150 Standard with all the factory accessories from Mac.

I have tested all of these guns from a quality BR setup and a one-piece vise rest with every brand of target ammo including the discontinued Russian Olymp-R. The cheapest and ugliest of the bunch, the early CM-2, will shoot as well as the most expensive, day in and day out. They ALL shoot better than I can hold. By far the most consistently accurate are the Tula and Ural with their heavy stocks and DST's. I know you're familiar with Thad's prices on used Annie's, so here are the prices on the others available currently:

Tula MU-12 from Mac (MTGuns.com) - approximately $500 to $600 depending on the accessories he has to go with your particular gun.

Ural w/DST from MTGuns.com - $350

2nd Generation CM-2 from Military Gun Supply - $250

BRNO Model 4's from above were also $250 but TOU just bought them all.

I have bought numerous guns from both Thad and Mac. With Thad, depending on who pulls your order, sometimes "what you see is what you get", whether it shoots well or not. With Mac Tilton, every gun is fully checked out, he describes it's condition in detail, will send you hard copy pictures if you request them, and you have a full return policy. Another excellent source for used target rifles is Brad Pilkington at PilkGuns.com. Brad also stands behind everything he sells. I realize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but tiny holes downrange can offset a few dings every time and wood's easily re-finished or replaced if the price is right. Here are pic's of my 2 newest, the 2nd Gen CM-2 and the Ural:

The Ural


The Vostok





Once I refinish the stock and clean up the trigger adjustment, this Vostok will shoot as well as my Annie, I guarantee it.

If you have to have new, then the current version of the CM-2, marketed by Saiga/Baikal/Ihzmash will shoot as well as anything else you are capable of holding. Mac at MTGuns.com has some new ones and some recent trade-ins, and Stanley's Pro Shop, the current main Saiga distributor, is selling brand new CM-2's for $379.96 and Charlotte and others assure me that he takes care of his customer's as well. Their link is: http://www.saigacentral.com/SaigaCentralRetail122005.pdf#search='saiga%20CM2'

Bottom line - Buy what makes you happy. They all shoot as well with the right ammo, and probably better than you will be able to hold (or anyone can except for "the select few" world record holders out there!). If you are completely new to 3P or RF Benchrest, you can be assured that any of these will compete. And as far as an earlier poster's comment regarding accessories, most of these accept standard Anschutz accessories because they ARE the standard. The few that don't are supported by other dealers like Champion's Choice, Neal J Guns, PilkGuns and Mac Tilton.
 
#8 ·
Great post Bill!!!!!!! One thing that was said in an earlier post, 'the CM-2 doesn't feel like an adult sized rifle.' The Cadet isn't supposed to. The other model, which I have, weighs 12 lbs and has a 26.8 inch barrel. Not very child friendly.
 
#10 ·
Finnish Lion

Most of them will, yes. Even though the Finns loved doing their own "odd" looking palm rests, they kept the accessory rail standard international size.

I loved the gun! It is without a doubt one of the finest pieces of old-world craftsmanship you will ever handle. I had it and my Tula MU-12 Olympic gun come in at the same time and really couldn't keep both right then. Since the Tula was all original and the Lion had been drilled & tapped and was missing the sights, I passed it on to a friend of mine here on the board. For anyone looking for one right now, Thad Scott has four or five of them and Mac Tilton has a few also, all at fair prices.
 
#11 ·
Highlander,

Greatly appreciated. My son is now into custom AR-15's. Even traveled to Camp Perry last year. I want to "borrow" the FL and see if my old eyes can still handle iron sights. But the FL needs a sling and I was hesitent ordering sling fittings (hand stop and sling swivel) not being sure if they would fit the rail.

Which sling would you recommend---I assume you have tried many.

Vic-One
 
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