Rimfire Central Firearm Forum banner

Accuracy Expectations

3K views 30 replies 11 participants last post by  Kiddshooter 
#1 ·
First time poster. I picked up the old 10/22 today for the first time in a few years. It's always been a blast to shoot but I've decided to take the plunge and mod it out. I traded out the stock, extractor, and bolt release when I first got it but other than that it's pretty stock. I shot at 50 yards and sighted it in. I know it's not a tack driver at this stage but I'm wondering how much is the rifle and how much is the shooter. I've been shooting guns for the last 10 years or so (deer hunting, GP100) so I'm no novice. I'm including the target from today for reference. My eventual goal is to get into a few local competitions for fun and just have a good time at the range. Nothing serious. Obviously I don't consider myself a marksman, but do y'all think the center group is pretty on par for my setup or do I just need to hit the range and do some practicing? Thanks in advance!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
See less See more
1
#3 · (Edited)
Most of that was on CCI AR Tactical or Mini Mags. Think I should drop it to SV? I fed it Wolf, Golden Bullets, and Federal Match and it seemed to like the CCI the best for sure. It probably didn't help that I wasn't shooting off a real rest, just a table.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#5 ·
Member "FlysAlot" did this most excellent 10/22[emoji769] Step by Step how to make a mostly OEM fly rite:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535662
Read it last week. Amazing post. My first step is definitely going to be a Tier 2 Brimstone trigger. After that, I'm looking at a Green Mountain 18" fluted SS barrel, JWH Custom Bolt, and a bipod. After reviewing his posts, I definitely want to retry with a shooting rest or at least some bags. Might pick some up off Amazon.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#6 ·
Regarding your group(s), at 50 yards, that's not horrible, but could be better. I think most of what would make the group better would be trying different brands/types of ammo. Probably more than any other caliber, .22's tend to be very ammo sensitive, and will generally shoot one brand and type of ammo better than any other. The time (and money) consuming part is shooting different kinds of ammo to find out which one works best.

Sometimes you get lucky and hit on a winner fairly soon, and other times it take a considerable amount of trial and error before you find ammo your gun likes best.

I recently bought a new Copper Mica 10/22, and I'm still trying to find out what ammo it likes best. I've shot six or eight different brands and types of ammo so far, and it seems to do best with either CCI SV, Federal Auto Match, Eley Club, or Norma TAC-22. Groups with all of these different brands were about the same size at 50 yds. I haven't tried any really expensive match ammo, because this gun isn't going to be a match rifle. So I don't see any point in buying super exotic match ammo to feed it. It's shooting groups of about an inch at 50 yards, which is about 2 MOA. If that's the best it will do with off the shelf ammo, I can live with that. If I find something it will shoot better, that's great, and I'll probably use that for its regular diet.

Good luck with your build, and Welcome to RFC!!!
 
#8 · (Edited)
Bipod, rear bag, trigger work, free-float the barrel. and ammo the gun likes. Plus a scope you like, or Tech Sights irons. This alone will do wonders for a stock gun, and is all most people want/need. The trigger work does not need to be expensive! Do it yourself or go with Brimstone. (edit: just noticed you already intend to go Brimstone. Yeah, Tier 2; but Tier 3 would probably be good enough, unless you plan on getting a match-grade barrel.)

If you're happy with the results you get from this, no need to change the barrel. POU. Do you just want a decent fun plinker you can have some fun with in casual competition, or will you get bit by the accuracy bug and chase down every little .01"? A personal decision. And perhaps different agendas for different 10/22s you might own.

My sporter-barrel 10/22 has the mods and shooting setup mentioned in the first paragraph. I did my own trigger work; it is probably not as good as a Tier 3, but works well. With four different subsonic ammos, and one supersonic, I have groups at or under 0.50" @ 50 yards, using a scope. Group sizes measured c-to-c, closest four of five shots (i.e. one flyer tossed out).
Worst to best: Norma Tac-22 (0.50"), Lapua Midas+, Eley Edge, Eley Match, Eley Force (the supersonic--0.25"). So a .25" spread among these ammos.

I also have shot four 10-shot groups @ 100 yards with Tech Sights on this gun. I toss out one flyer for every five shots, assuming either imperfect ammo or operator error, so here are the results with this ammo:
10 shots.....8 shots.....Ammo
3.20"..........2.38"........Eley Match
3.45"..........1.95"........Eley Edge
3.20"..........1.88"........Eley Contact
2.50"..........1.25"........CCI SV

So yeah, CCI SV is pretty decent stuff! YMMV of course, with your gun.
 
#9 ·
I’ll “cheat” whenever cheating’s possible, always trying to shoot with gun and me carcass both stabilized as well as can be, rested directly on, propped overtop, or at minimum, leaned against whatever available means.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for the info. Fun plinker and casual competition. I'm not selling the house to buy all Kidd parts anytime soon. I'm thinking those upgrades should run me around 400 bucks and get the gun capable of shooting sub 0.5" groups at 50 yards. After that I just need to do my part. It looks like I might be investing in a yearly membership at this dang range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#12 · (Edited)
Thanks for the info. Fun plinker and casual competition. I'm not selling the house to buy all Kidd parts anytime soon. I'm thinking those upgrades should run me around 400 bucks and get the gun capable of shooting sub 0.5" groups at 50 yards. After that I just need to do my part. It looks like I might be investing in a yearly membership at this dang range.
With just a Brimstone trigger, appropriate rests/bipod and the right ammo, your gun should be at sub-0.5" already. The rest is all your ability. Great parts will not make you a better shooter. Even my stock Mossie 702 gets sub-0.5" with six different ammos and my own very minor trigger work!

In the long run, it's better to shoot well yourself (and more fun) before chasing accuracy with $$$. I suspect some shooters try to compensate for average fundamentals by upgrading their gun. That will help a little, but then they will hit the brick wall of their skill level.
 
#18 ·
I definitely need some practice shooting and I'll have to put in some work. That being said, I think my lack of a bipod or rest and that awful 6lb trigger pull wasn't doing me any favors yesterday. I've already decided my Brimstone trigger will be the first big accuracy mod. Second should probably be the barrel. After researching, it seems like GM barrels are pretty good bang for the buck. I like the look of the fluted 18" SS but it's definitely running my price up to approaching 200 bucks. I think I could probably find a sale for 150. The other bargain build option I was considering was the Shaw barrel. It saves a few bucks and seems comparable. Aside from the bolt (I read that it reduces fliers even though that doesn't make a lot of sense to my rookie knowledge base), is there anything else I should be looking at upgrading? I don't really feel comfortable bedding the rifle, especially since my archangel stock has lost a little appeal over the years (I love the magpul x-22 hunter though). Obviously I'll have to revisit my ammo choice with the new barrel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#19 ·
I definitely need some practice shooting and I'll have to put in some work. That being said, I think my lack of a bipod or rest and that awful 6lb trigger pull wasn't doing me any favors yesterday. I've already decided my Brimstone trigger will be the first big accuracy mod. Second should probably be the barrel. After researching, it seems like GM barrels are pretty good bang for the buck. I like the look of the fluted 18" SS but it's definitely running my price up to approaching 200 bucks. I think I could probably find a sale for 150. The other bargain build option I was considering was the Shaw barrel. It saves a few bucks and seems comparable. Aside from the bolt (I read that it reduces fliers even though that doesn't make a lot of sense to my rookie knowledge base), is there anything else I should be looking at upgrading? I don't really feel comfortable bedding the rifle, especially since my archangel stock has lost a little appeal over the years (I love the magpul x-22 hunter though). Obviously I'll have to revisit my ammo choice with the new barrel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They come on sale once in a while, so you could always practice with trigger job, until you see a bargain. The last sale had huge discounts. Don't forget other distributors as well (Midway, Midsouth, etc.)

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....22-18inch-bull-fluted-barrel-stainless-finish
 
#22 ·
The new bipod definitely helped. My barrel is leaning towards Wolf Match Target so far but CCI SV also offered some decent groups. My wish list for Santa consists of a GM or Kidd 18" SS BBL and a new Kidd bolt that I hope will get rid of those nasty fliers. I plan on sending the trigger group into Brimstone for a Tier 2 this week as well. After asking the range owner about the local rimfire competitors, he tells me that my little 10/22 will never keep up with the $5k bolt action guys that come out there but it never hurts to try, right?





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#23 ·
The new bipod definitely helped. My barrel is leaning towards Wolf Match Target so far but CCI SV also offered some decent groups. My wish list for Santa consists of a GM or Kidd 18" SS BBL and a new Kidd bolt that I hope will get rid of those nasty fliers. I plan on sending the trigger group into Brimstone for a Tier 2 this week as well. After asking the range owner about the local rimfire competitors, he tells me that my little 10/22 will never keep up with the $5k bolt action guys that come out there but it never hurts to try, right?
He's probably right. That's why they're $5K. But you can narrow the gap a bit with the Tier 2. And if you are a better shooter than they are, you can narrow it even more. Having an expensive gun does not mean the trigger-puller is at that level too. Otherwise all Ferrari owners would be professional race car drivers....but yeah, I suspect the great majority are not just compensating for average skills; they can probably really shoot, or they wouldn't have bought the gun. However, you still might sneak up on some rich guy who thinks skill can be bought.
 
#25 ·
Got a Kidd 18" bull barrel and a Kidd bolt for Christmas! I was stoked at the range today. Very happy with it. I'm confident for tighter groupings with practice. Next is a Brimstone trigger job. I did have quite a few FTF and FTE with CCI SV for the first time ever. I'm hoping with the good oil down I just gave the bolt, it'll clear out. (This Image is Too Large to Be Displayed Within the Post. Click Link to View) (897 kB)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#26 ·
Got a Kidd 18" bull barrel and a Kidd bolt for Christmas! I was stoked at the range today. Very happy with it. I'm confident for tighter groupings with practice. Next is a Brimstone trigger job. I did have quite a few FTF and FTE with CCI SV for the first time ever. I'm hoping with the good oil down I just gave the bolt, it'll clear out. (This Image is Too Large to Be Displayed Within the Post. Click Link to View) (897 kB)
Congratulations, looks great! The Kidd bolt may be a tighter fit in the receiver. Have you done the Crotchbrite treatment and polished up the inside top of the receiver? That may cure the issue. You may want to consider dry lube instead of oil, since oil will collect fouling and gum things up.

Also, a contributing factor may be that CCI brass is slightly larger in diameter at both the base and case mouth than Wolf/SK/Lapua brass. But I'm guessing some friction is slowing down the cycling, both when chambering the round and when ejecting it.



 
#28 ·
Looking real good. Not even the same gun you started with. :bthumb: Looks like you already took care of it but I was going to mention the stock. I have a hunting gun with a factory wood stock that does about 3/4" at 50. I thought Id love to have an all weather stock so I got a hogue and the groups just fell apart. Im sure I can work with it and get it back but I stuck the wood one back on for now but the stock can make a big difference. Not up on the stocks, but is that a boyd?
 
#29 ·
That's actually a PWS Raptor (formerly Predator brand I think). I also have a Promag Archangel stock I'll try out in a few range trips and see if I can get some improvement. I really think most of it is just me. I finally plopped some money down on some shooting bags and the front one is just a few inches too low to be comfortable. I was fighting it all day yesterday. I got some wood blocks and rubber grip pads I'll fix it with though. Another thing is I'm still using the factory 47 pound trigger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#31 ·
Ah, the continuing search for accuracy in a 10/22 platform. This is a very elusive search. I can attest to several points on these rifles.
1. You will never get one of these to compete with custom built bolt rifles and one piece rests.
2. I shoot bench rest matches against these bolt guns and some 10/22's, no one seeking ultimate accuracy uses a synthetic stock. There is too much flex in them.
3. Barrels followed by triggers have the most impact on accuracy improvements, but this is combined by the search for ammo the rifle likes.
4. As I built my rifle, which started life as a LVT, model 1235, I tested each change, made notes on improvements and continued my search. The first change to the stock rifle was a Kidd drop in trigger group, this really helped the stock rifle. Receiver bedding, ammo testing and range time improved the accuracy but still in search of more accuracy and not satisfied with what the stock configuration produced, I used the receiver from the Ruger, cleaned it up a little and checked the squareness of the barrel opening and installed all Kidd parts, 20" match grade barrel, bolt, charging handle and the Kidd two stage trigger. Used a laminated stock from Altamont and up-graded my bags to a Wichita Arms mechanical front rest and Protector leather bags.
5. In matches I shoot Eley Tenex off the number 4 crimping machine. Best 5 shot group measured .084 center to center and overall the rifles averages .184 with the Eley. I use CCI Std velocity for everyday practice. That rifle will average .388 with that ammo. all are shot at 50 yrds.
6. This rifle uses a 40 X scope and extensive bedding or the receiver.
7. No one has mentioned the wind, but learning to read it and how it impacts the accuracy of the .22 round is super important. A 10 to 15 mph wind can move a .22 round about an inch at 50 yrds from its normal POI. This is especially true, with wind coming across the shooting bench. If you think about it, the bullet has no sideways direction in the barrel, as soon as it leaves the barrel it is now subject to Mother Natures effects. Learning to read the wind is what separates the best shooters from the average guys. Anyone can buy or have built the equipment to be competitive.
Good luck in your search.
Kiddshooter
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top