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Old 06-16-2017, 07:44 AM
billnconnie
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kidd barrel and bedding



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New 20" kidd arriving today. Called kidd and they say no bedding under the barrel, so will just bedding the action keep the barrel stable or do I need to try and make a rear tang. I have no tools other than a dremel tool. I'm using a stock ruger receiver and plan on putting the action and barrel in a terminator stock. I usually just bed the first 2 to 3 inches of the barrel. Thanks for any input.
Bill
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:27 AM
RCP Phx

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From another thread..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
I use mostly aftermarket receivers in my builds which I prefer not to modify so I use the "old school" methods. A simple use of JB gets all the results plus secures the trigger group itself from moving.


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Old 06-16-2017, 05:30 PM
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Here is how I have both our 20" and 16.5" kidd bull barrels setup. some aluminum tape with some cut up bicycle inner tube just ahead of the v block, but floated ahead of that. it supports the barrel/action but allows the barrel to be floated. most barrels I have used like a pressure point near the tip of the forend, but the kidds do not like to be setup like that. at least the ss bull barrels. the aluminum tape is to help shim everything.





here is a typical target from the 16", the 20" doesn't shoot quite as good. its usually about .02-.03 wider groups on a given day with a given load


Last edited by Clem-E; 06-16-2017 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 06-16-2017, 06:44 PM
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Try it floated. Then try support in the first few inch's, as Clem did.

My Kidd 18" blued .920, shoots best with support at the tip. It has a Gunsmither button, the action is bedded, and it still shoots better with support. Not free floated.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:25 PM
billnconnie
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Thanks for the info,
Spent the afternoon making a rear tang and bedding the action. The barrel is completely floated.
Now off the the range (after I put in my kidd trigger kit).
Will carry some inter tube for a pressure point just in case it doesn't shoot.
Thanks, Bill
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Old 06-18-2017, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye57 View Post
Try it floated. Then try support in the first few inch's, as Clem did.

My Kidd 18" blued .920, shoots best with support at the tip. It has a Gunsmither button, the action is bedded, and it still shoots better with support. Not free floated.
I wonder if the chromoly barrels (blued) work better with support than the SS do. Because when I had my blued 21" chromoly clark bull barrel (walther blank just like the kidds) it shot well with a pressure point. but when I tried a pressure point on my wifes 20" stainless kidd (which is a SS walther blank) it shot horrible. the only difference was the material. and out of all my barrels, the only SS I have are the kidds, and those are the only 2 that haven't liked a pressure point toward the forend. all the chromoly barrels I have had, clark, GM, anschutz and CZ have all liked a pressure point.
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Old 06-18-2017, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billnconnie View Post
Thanks for the info,
Spent the afternoon making a rear tang and bedding the action. The barrel is completely floated.
Now off the the range (after I put in my kidd trigger kit).
Will carry some inter tube for a pressure point just in case it doesn't shoot.
Thanks, Bill
if you don't put some kind of support under the area just ahead of the v block, you will have issues with barrel droop because the weight of the barrel will cause the top of the slip fit to slide out just a little from only being supported at the bottom. you do not want to make that little aluminum receiver support the entire weight of that steel barrel. the rubber is nice for support because it still lets the barrel have some frequency rather than having a completely stiff material under it. so despite it being not floated, the rubber has a cushion effect.

Last edited by Clem-E; 06-18-2017 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:57 PM
billnconnie
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I'm using the eliminator stock which has the vent slots on the forearm the first slot is just in front of the v-block. Don't see anyway to bed this area. There is room at the tip of the forearm to bed. I will try to post a picture of the gun.

Last edited by billnconnie; 06-18-2017 at 11:43 PM. Reason: picture didn't load
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billnconnie View Post
I'm using the eliminator stock which has the vent slots on the forearm the first slot is just in front of the v-block. Don't see anyway to bed this area. There is room at the tip of the forearm to bed. I will try to post a picture of the gun.
I pillar bedded one of those years ago, and in the first version of it I did bed about 2 inches of the barrel channel. I fashioned plugs out of soft pine that filled the vent slots to prevent the bedding compound from flowing into there. I learned a lesson on that one, however. Turns out that my bedding job on the barrel was too tight as it ran up the sides of the barrel to the top of the barrel channel. I had difficulty with accuracy falling off as the barrel warmed up so I ended up reverting to a full free float as you are planning. You might find the thread interesting, which also has pictures of the bedding job. The second link is to the final version of that rifle with a new customized Eliminator BR stock which is as it sits to this day.

Barrel Bedding Can Harm Accuracy:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=505680

Fat Boy:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=527301




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Last edited by DrGunner; 06-19-2017 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:22 AM
billnconnie
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Thanks for the link, I have read it several times. I always bed the first two inches as well but when I talked to Kidd they were adamant that the barrel be bed free for it's entire length. Have an E R Shaw that required a pressure bedding at the end of the stock. Guess there nothing written in stone with these guns.
Thanks, Bill

P.S. Always enjoy reading your post Dr. Gunner, your knowledge is much appreciated.

Last edited by billnconnie; 06-19-2017 at 09:18 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billnconnie View Post
Thanks for the link, I have read it several times. I always bed the first two inches as well but when I talked to Kidd they were adamant that the barrel be bed free for it's entire length. Have an E R Shaw that required a pressure bedding at the end of the stock. Guess there nothing written in stone with these guns.
Thanks, Bill

P.S. Always enjoy reading your post Dr. Gunner, your knowledge is much appreciated.
Definitely no Ark with "10 Bedding Commandments" only trends and generalizations with an exception to each rule. I still bed the barrel channel of many different types of rifles, although I'm careful about how far up the sides I go. FWIW, all of my .920 bull barreled 10-22 variants are free floated while most of my spotters have some type of support- bedding, pressure pads and the like.

I know I'm recycling old material here, but I saved this old post because it describes the bedding and pressure pad end of my tuning process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGunner
Free Float vs Pressure Pad


If you have a free float, test shoot it first. Then skip down to the section describing testing with pressure pads.

And if you have contact between the barrel and stock, test shoot it first.

Then to create a free float for testing, put a thin washer or stack some aluminum tape under the front of the receiver surrounding the takedown screw area in order to elevate the front slightly and float the barrel. Then you can test it in that configuration without changing anything.

If it shoots better with the shim under the receiver, then sand out any contact areas in the barrel channel creating enough space for a free float. IMO, a dollar bill space is insufficient. I prefer one or two business cards, depending upon thickness but the rule of thumb I use is one business card for rimfire, two for centerfire. You are not creating space to tame horrendous barrel whip, but the amount that a stock can expand and contract with moisture and the amount of flex present when shooting off a bipod mounted to the front of the foreend can be enough to make a difference.

If it shoots better with contact between the barrel and stock, then the next stage of tuning will involve testing barrel contact with a pressure pad. I prefer slices of bicycle inner tube, of varying thicknesses. I make three, one of them 1 inch long, another 2 inches long, and another 3 inches long. Work with the one that is 2 inches long, and mark out your barrel channel in 1 inch increments. Start with the pressure pad right at the receiver, test shoot and then move it forward 1 inch, test shoot apply, lather, rinse, repeat. Once you find the "sweet spot", try the 1" and 3" pads at the same spot. Pick the best of the three, then work forward and back in 1/4" increments to fine tune. When that's done, you will have found what I nickname the rifle's G-spot. Then you just need to experiment with different size, thickness, and density of material before committing and gluing something in place. I prefer to use thin double sided adhesive tape to hold pressure pads in. Glue and epoxy can stiffen the pressure pad and change its properties.

It has been my experience that MOST, but not ALL .920/Bull barrels shoot better with a free float- which requires a rear tang or other hold down to achieve.
As a general rule, those bull barrels that do shoot better with a pressure pad usually perform best with the pressure pad very close, if not right against the takedown area/receiver. I have free floated many 20-21" .920 barrels weighing 3-4 lb mounted with a slip fit in all manner of receivers and have never seen the "weight of the barrel deform the receiver"...
I have seen droop induced by over tightening the V Block screws- one good remedy to prevent this is to use a Gunsmither Block which creates a straight pull.
It also helps to use a proper inch/lb torque wrench and torque them to 12-15 inch/lb MAX.

I have also seen droop in a rifle that had a sloppy fit between the barrel stub and counterbore in the receiver- the result of an out of spec stub in two cases and counterbore on a receiver twice. I have always been able to remedy that problem with Loctite 603.

My preference is the interference fit provided by the Kidd receivers. I use the heat/cold process and have never had a problem putting one together or taking one apart.


In my experience most Taper/Sporter profile barrel shoot best with a pressure pad, the distance from the receiver varies greatly but as a general rule of thumb, heavier taper and varmint barrels usually do best with the pressure pad about 4-6" from the receiver. Standard taper and pencil barrels also vary but in general, my experience has shown that they do best with the pressure pad farther away from the receiver, towards the end of the stock.

I do not claim this process to be "RIGHT", just what works for me.
There are exceptions to every rule.


Hope this helps-

DrGunner
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  #12  
Old 06-20-2017, 04:22 PM
billnconnie
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Just a quick update on the range trip. Fired 20 rounds before I started shooting groups. Fired 5 shots at each group with no fouling shots between brands. These groups were at 50 yds.

Thanks, Bill

Last edited by billnconnie; 06-20-2017 at 04:25 PM.
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