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  #76  
Old 03-30-2017, 06:28 PM
ohforgodssake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onearm View Post
This is exactly what my MK II came with. I have posted the picture many times and pointed out that it requires no new holes or other modification of the rifles, as long as there are already holes in the barrel for scope bases. Check out reply number 11 on the first page of this thread.
Not exactly, Onearm. Your Mk II rail mount uses all four holes. The example from grg only uses the back two holes which allows the scope to be mounted a little lower, closer to the barrel, because the rail ends just in front of the rear two holes. The objective bell does not have to clear the rail. This may or may not be an advantage depending on the size of the objective bell and the cheek weld of the individual shooter.

So far I think like the four hole mount for me because I don't think the scope will be too high and I like the idea of using all four holes for one thing and I like the idea of the mount being attached only to the barrel and not partly on the receiver.

My thinking is I don't want to put much downward pressure at all on the the stock to achieve a cheek weld. The lower the scope the more potential for more downward pressure on the stock. Any downward pressure on the stock puts upward pressure on the barrel on a Mk I, II, IV or V because the forearm is screwed directly into the bottom of the barrel. Only the Mk III has a free floated barrel.
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  #77  
Old 03-30-2017, 09:00 PM
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Cheek Weld and Downward Pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohforgodssake View Post


My thinking is I don't want to put much downward pressure at all on the the stock to achieve a cheek weld. The lower the scope the more potential for more downward pressure on the stock. Any downward pressure on the stock puts upward pressure on the barrel on a Mk I, II, IV or V because the forearm is screwed directly into the bottom of the barrel. Only the Mk III has a free floated barrel.
I found results with my PH25AL (rear) and Anschutz (?) (front) sights that might surprise you.

Out to 50 yards, I found my MK II to be most accurate with the PH sights. In an earlier reply in this thread, I posted a picture of a pretty decent 5-shot/50 yard group that I fired with that rifle, using the PH sights. Of course, as I am a half blind old man, I cannot see much beyond 50 yards without a scope.

I found a perfect relationship between the concave cheek rest in the buttstock and the location of the rear sight. Resting my cheek naturally into the cheek rest and settling into the most comfortable position possible, I found myself looking directly through the center of the apeture of the rear sight, right down the barrel at the center of the front sight. At that perfect location, my cheek rested lightly against the wood, with little downward pressure.

It was a great disappointment for me that I could not get a scope low enough, or far enough back, to allow for the perfect cheek weld. In the end, I sold the rifle (here in the RFC Trading Post) hopefully to someone younger than me and with better eyesight.
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Last edited by Onearm; 06-19-2017 at 04:47 PM.
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  #78  
Old 03-30-2017, 10:23 PM
ohforgodssake
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Thanks Onearm. Now you have me curious enough to try the PH sights. Mine came with PH sights but the first thing I did was take them off and put on an old Fecker scope. My eyes are old too and even though I almost never shoot 22LR over 50 yards, I switched to using mostly scopes on rifles some time ago. The Fecker works pretty good but I have convinced myself a modern scope will be better. I have a T36 on a Win 52B and I like that scope so much better than the Fecker. The Mk II looks better with the age appropriate long scope on it but I'm not concerned with the looks. I just want to get it to shoot better.

I am able to really mess up the accuracy by leaning in too heavy with my cheek. So now I use a light touch on that rifle. Plus I have kind of a fat head, at least that is what people call me sometimes, so a higher scope is probably a good fit for me.
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  #79  
Old 05-04-2017, 01:46 AM
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I got my rails back from the machinist. He did a great job. They fit the rifles perfectly. There is a 0.030 inch clearance between the back end of the rail and the receiver. The screw heads fit just right in the counterbore pocket with the heads perfectly flush with the top surface of the rail. I had four of these done.


Last edited by ohforgodssake; 05-04-2017 at 01:53 AM.
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  #80  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M14man View Post
Onearm, don't have a photo with no sights but one where there is no rear sight but scope. You can get an idea of the length from the photo.

Could you state what mounts you used on this MkIII ?
Friend just purchased one and this looks like the simplest way to mount a newer scope.

Do you get an efficient cheek weld with this mounting?
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  #81  
Old 05-04-2017, 09:53 AM
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It's been like that 20 years. As I recall they are high 1" rimfire rings. Standard bases that came with the BSA. I don't believe the mounts had to be played with, but went right on. No problem with cheek weld.
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  #82  
Old 05-11-2017, 05:53 PM
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is that EGW Winchester 52 mount rigid enough for a large scope? I know they make good products, but just seems inadequate with only 2 screws.

Thx
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  #83  
Old 05-11-2017, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grg View Post
Here is how I did mine so that I could mount the scope lower. Like Onearm's but shorter using the rear barrel block holes and loctite the rest to the barrel. If it has to be removed just a little heat and it will come off but opens up your scope options.



It's just regular 3/8 rail from Brownells.
nicest stock cutting of all time
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  #84  
Old 05-11-2017, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwace View Post
nicest stock cutting of all time
Not only that. The price I sold it for was good as well

I pondered why there were two cuts, and figured it was for a youth shooter.....
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  #85  
Old 06-07-2017, 12:08 AM
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I dropped the Mark II and the Brownell's rail off at Vang Comp this afternoon. They said about a week. Can't wait. That gives me time to get the correct rings, since the ones I bought (medium Burris Signature) turned out to be to short for the Leupold 36x.
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  #86  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:49 AM
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Since no one posted a version of the Mack Truck versions it would be appropriate to share the one I got from Mark Chesbro. This was before the Australian one was available.

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  #87  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:50 PM
ohforgodssake
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Measurement

Could someone please take a measurement on a BSA Martini International Mk III and Mk V?

The measurement of interest is the distance from the front edge of the action to the center of the first hole for the first scope block.

I am thinking the spacing from that first hole to the other holes is exactly the same but I guess it wouldn't hurt if someone wanted to check that too.

I only have Mk II rifles and that distance is the same for all four of my Mk II rifles so the rails are all interchangeable. However the action is longer on the Mk III and later rifles. I don't know if they adjusted the position of the scope blocks because of this.
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  #88  
Old 06-19-2017, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohforgodssake View Post
Could someone please take a measurement on a BSA Martini International Mk III and Mk V?

The measurement of interest is the distance from the front edge of the action to the center of the first hole for the first scope block.

I am thinking the spacing from that first hole to the other holes is exactly the same but I guess it wouldn't hurt if someone wanted to check that too.

I only have Mk II rifles and that distance is the same for all four of my Mk II rifles so the rails are all interchangeable. However the action is longer on the Mk III and later rifles. I don't know if they adjusted the position of the scope blocks because of this.
It will be the same.

Because those scope block holes were designed for mounting blocks for old fashioned externally adjusted scopes such as the Unertl and Lyman Super Target Spot, long tube scopes, the hole spacing and scope block spacing (if factory original) are always the same.

This is because the entire scope moves as you adjust elevation and windage and the spacing of the scope blocks is a factor in the distance the front of the scope moves per click stop when you make your adjustments.

If I remember it correctly measuring the distance between the centers of the two barrel mounted scope blocks is 7.5" exactly. That measurement may be taken differently. For example it might be between specified mounting holes on the two blocks but I distinctly remember the need for the distance between such scope blocks to be a fixed distance. When I had holes drilled and tapped in the barrel of my 12/15, the gunsmith explained this all to me and mentioned 7.5" as the correct spacing for accurate click stops for my Fecker and Unertl scopes. My Remington Model 37 had the exact same spacing for its barrel mounted scope blocks.
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  #89  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onearm View Post
It will be the same.

Because those scope block holes were designed for mounting blocks for old fashioned externally adjusted scopes such as the Unertl and Lyman Super Target Spot, long tube scopes, the hole spacing and scope block spacing (if factory original) are always the same.

This is because the entire scope moves as you adjust elevation and windage and the spacing of the scope blocks is a factor in the distance the front of the scope moves per click stop when you make your adjustments.

If I remember it correctly measuring the distance between the centers of the two barrel mounted scope blocks is 7.5" exactly. That measurement may be taken differently. For example it might be between specified mounting holes on the two blocks but I distinctly remember the need for the distance between such scope blocks to be a fixed distance. When I had holes drilled and tapped in the barrel of my 12/15, the gunsmith explained this all to me and mentioned 7.5" as the correct spacing for accurate click stops for my Fecker and Unertl scopes. My Remington Model 37 had the exact same spacing for its barrel mounted scope blocks.
Yes. 7.2 from center to center was 1/4 MOA with 1/4 per click. Designed for Unertl, Fecker's etc...

Here are the mount spacing for Unertl bases.
5.4" = 1/3" Per Click.
7.2" = 1/4" Per Click.
9.0" = 1/5" Per Click.
10.8" = 1/6" Per Click.
12.6" = 1/7" Per Click.
14.4" = 1/8" Per Click.

The Info came direct from John Unertl years ago

Last edited by Dickn52; 06-19-2017 at 08:34 PM.
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  #90  
Old 06-20-2017, 09:39 AM
ohforgodssake
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Yes, I realize the spacing between the two holes for each block is fairly standard and that the spacing between the blocks is fairly standard for a given firearm manufacturer. Steve Earle talks about some of the spacing variations he has seen. Standard is 0.560 inch for the front and 0.860 inch for the rear but not always.
http://www.steveearleproducts.com/scopeblocks.html

But anyhow that is not the measurement in question. I was wondering specifically about the distance between the action and the first hole. Since the Mk III action is over an inch longer than the Mk II that would push the whole scope further forward - unless they decided to reduce the distance from the front edge of the action to the first hole - keeping all the other spacing the same.

All it would take is for someone to measure this one distance on a Mk III and a Mk V just to confirm it is the same. This distance is needed to make the rails fit close to the action but not touching the action. Mine are made with a 0.030 inch gap right in front of the action.
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