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  #61  
Old 02-14-2017, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by lion View Post
Just happened upon this thread and did some reading. I know nothing about cameras. This is what I am using - Canon powershot SX500IS. It gets the job done and has more features than I can use. Is it OK, Medicore or junk. I won't be getting rid of it, just curious. Wayne
I don't think Canon makes much of anything that is junk. Even their inexpensive point and shoot cameras are pretty good. My opening pictures were taken with a $100 Canon point and shoot. See that moon shot....that is where point and shoot and bridge cameras fail.

Your camera is a notch up the scale from mine....you are in the bridge category of cameras. Yours is a camera that fits between the point and shoot....(size wise, cost wise, sensor and lens quality wise, quality of picture wise, etc.) and an enthusiasts/professional mirrorless or DSLR camera.

It all depends on what you want to do with a camera and plenty of photographers carry a point and shoot, a bridge and a full size DSLR. The point and shoot is the Ruger LCP.....no reason to leave home without it on your person in case you run across something that you really wish to capture or video. Of course....phones do this also these days and just as well if not better. Your limitations will be that you can't change lenses, you can't put on a 1.2 35mm really fast lens for taking pictures indoors or late in the evening where you need all the light you can get and you probably can't adjust depth of field, shutter speed, iso, etc. Some effects and some adjustments...yes, but not the type professionals or even enthusiasts require. I would be in the enthusiast category as I have no intention of earning a living with a camera, or selling pictures or being a wedding photographer. But I won't get there with a $100 camera.

To jump into the enthusiast level I will need to be able to change lenses, make appropriate adjustments to the camera and this means a good mirrorless or DSLR. With a DSLR you are looking through the lens. What the lens is seeing is what you will be seeing. With other cameras including point and shoot, bridge and mirrorless you are looking at a screen depicting what the lens is seeing.....not actually looking through the lens like you would with a rifle scope for example. In a DSLR you are actually looking through the lens but looking at the image on a mirror as part of the sight line.

All of this is rapidly changing though. Some say the smaller mirrorless will kill the larger DSLR cameras. Others say not. When the inauguration was going on I was interested in seeing what the professional photographers were using. Nearly all had more than one expensive camera, most had Canon and most had a $5,000+ body with a $75,000 lens on each one. Oh well, it is what they make their living with.... My bobcats and dump trucks didn't come cheap either.

So you have a very good camera. But it has its limits. It will not compete with cameras where a $100 to $100,000 lens can be attached. I'm finding that most really good enthusiast lenses sell in the $500 to $2,000 range. The more light the lens lets in.....the bigger the glass and the more it costs. 1917
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  #62  
Old 02-14-2017, 09:08 PM
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1917-1911M;
Thanks for the explanation. My previous camera was a Minolta 7000i with 5 different lenses. Never did learn to use that to an advantage. Just had big dreams when I bought it. For the pictures I will take the Canon will do the job just fine.
Wayne
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  #63  
Old 02-14-2017, 09:37 PM
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I hear you and that is where I'm hung up.......I've worn out several point and shoots.....why? Because I always have one in my pocket or in the truck and I find them a bit easier to use than my I Phone. Now I'm not getting rid of the point and shoot but want to step it up....so I can get that moon shot. The problem is.....that moon shot comes along very infrequently and a really good bridge or perhaps better yet....a really good mirrorless with say, three lenses....10mm to 35mm, a 50mm prime and a 70mm to 200mm, all of them high end would cover me 99.9% of the time. My skills will never exceed the need for anything better than a good mirrorless or DSLR because I'm just not that interested and I don't want something sitting in the safe.....so, what to do, what to do...... The prime for when I want a carry around without the big lenses. This one I borrowed would actually be pretty small with a short prime on it. Smaller than your camera I believe. That Canon 80D is superb....but small it ain't. The lenses alone are larger than your camera. Gonna get something.....what prezackly....haven't decided. 1917
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  #64  
Old 02-14-2017, 10:12 PM
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If you still have the minolta lenses look at sony cameras. They bought out minoltas digital cameras. your old lenses are compatible
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:12 PM
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If you end up going with a Canon, especially on of the APS-C models, I would recommend the 15-85 zoom lens as a good all around lens. The is my primary with a 70-200 L series for telephoto coupled with a 2x extender when needed. Besides these 2 I have a nice fast 50m for inside shots (but a fast wide angle would be better), and a 60mm macro for close stuff. As for the body, pick what you like. My last purchase I went with a SL1 based on the size. I been thinking of adding a M3 to the bag, but it will require an adapter to use my existing lenses.

Get as much resolution as you can afford, as you will find that you take pictures that you need to crop to really capture your subject.

Having said all that when we do our annual motorcycle trip (2 weeks) we always take a Nikon point and shoot. Mainly because it has good resolution and a really long optical zoom.

Certainly not an expert, but this is what has worked well for me.
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  #66  
Old 02-14-2017, 10:49 PM
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This has been a very interesting thread, most of it way over my head. A number of things discussed have helped me out as I am wanting to get a different camera to mainly take pictures of my son in track. I'm thinking of a used Canon, maybe a T2i or T3i with short and long range lenses. This would be in a price range I am comfortable with and I think it is simple enough that I could figure out part of it anyway. Mistake? Does it fall in line with some of the things being discussed on use and quality of pics for the money.

Thanks and hope I'm not distracting the discussion.
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  #67  
Old 02-14-2017, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by grg View Post
This has been a very interesting thread, most of it way over my head. A number of things discussed have helped me out as I am wanting to get a different camera to mainly take pictures of my son in track. I'm thinking of a used Canon, maybe a T2i or T3i with short and long range lenses. This would be in a price range I am comfortable with and I think it is simple enough that I could figure out part of it anyway. Mistake? Does it fall in line with some of the things being discussed on use and quality of pics for the money.

Thanks and hope I'm not distracting the discussion.
Those would probably work out great for you. They are 18 mega pixel each. That is about three times the pixel size of a standard non-digital film camera. The more the pixels, the more you can blow up a photo without distortion. This comes into play not only when producing larger photos and posters, but also for cropping. 18 should be fine unless you are interested in large posters. The vibration reduction feature of the lens will help steady action shots. You can also adjust the auto-focusing sensors from the whole frame down to just the center. This is something lesser cameras do not offer but can make a big difference when switching between still shots and action shots.
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  #68  
Old 02-25-2017, 09:59 AM
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I'm going to have to fess up...I downloaded the Olympus owner's manual and began reading. That thing has so many options that I really don't think I will ever be interested in fooling around with. Heck, I'd have to write it all down just to remember and when I set the camera to some of these I don't really see much difference in my photos. I think I would like a camera with about six automatic adjustments....depth of field, shutter, iso, etc and let the brains of the camera do the rest.

Neighbor's mirrorless camera. I do like the 12mm to 55mm lens but there are plenty of times the shutter won't snap. Out of focus, slow focus or not enough light. F 4.5 is the fastest this lens is which isn't too fast. So a better lens would be needed for low light but all in all the camera far exceeds my point and shoot in image quality. I don't find the auto focus to be that slow but it sure isn't up to DSLR speed.

I also notice that a number of professional photographers with high end DSLR cameras are using the touch screen......so much for the viewfinder. I've also decided that i like the screen better than the viewfinder as well. I can just see the picture better, compose it better but I'm sure there is some loss here in bright light.....but not much. The camera I'm testing is still hard to hold though.....larger than a point and shoot but not large enough to get a real grip on. 1917
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  #69  
Old 02-28-2017, 01:06 PM
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These days most of the point and shoots do well enough that you really don't need a high end DSLR. And editing software can fix most downfalls from going that route.

I started with a Rebel XT, then a few years later I stepped into a 5d Mark II.

I don't regret the purchase, but each year the point and shoots get better....and the extra money from my camera body and lenses could have became one expensive rifle....or a few firearms.
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  #70  
Old 03-01-2017, 09:51 AM
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I'm not really concerned about the money as I will use the camera for years. What I am trying to decides is what will be the best for the way I will use the camera. As far as daily use....small it better....but only in the fact that the unit is small. Screw on a big lens and none of them are small any more.

The Olympus is definitely better than any P&S I've used but....there are $1,000 P&S cameras out there that I'm sure do a much better job. But, the lenses can't be changed and the sensors are still tiny. Full frame or cropped sensor seem to be where I'm looking. The 4/3 rds do a pretty good job as well and that is what the Olympus I'm trying is. The sensor is considerably smaller than the full or cropped though. It focuses slow in dim light too.....or not at all. The Sony is very fast focus wise same as the Canon 80D or Nikons or really any of the good DSLRs.

What is the importance of three axis or five axis stabilization? Do I really need that? I don't take pictures on the run and my hold and trigger finger is pretty steady. I guess that would be of benefit with longer exposures. $600 DSLR/mirrorless cameras looks pretty good....Canon and Nikon both make them..as well a Sony and others and I can use any lens I want......which takes me back to my original question......how much camera do I need? 1917
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:53 AM
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Crop sensor - Sports, Birds, distance stuff
Full Frame - portraits, landscapes

Is my general opinion on the sensor question. I personally prefer the full frame sensor. Much like building a gun, you need to make a decision on the final use and build from there (otherwise it gets really expensive fast). I would steer clear of the package deals from the retailers, they normally put junk accessories with a good body.

Most people end up selling off the kit lens and buying better glass. Low light glass makes a big difference both financially and physically as you learned with the slow focusing / no focusing one you borrowed.

You are also spot on with your reasoning that a good operator trumps good equipment, but the good equipment speeds up the learning curve and allows you to get that one special moon shoot behind the bridge or the eagle in the tree. Nothing will overcome poor composition or lazy techniques. 90% of the time you can get the picture with a p&s or low level gear but its that 10% were things get expensive and the pro gear shines.

Prime lenses will give your better quality but zoom lenses will afford you more versatility. Doublers/extenders will degrade your picture quality and bump up your f stop significantly.

Quality memory is also an important factor, not all memory is the same both in speed and reliability. Also remember with these higher end bodies you will be making much larger file sizes. So you home computer will need space to store all these large files.

Finally if you do plan on spending thousands, looking into adding it to your insurance just in case.

I like B&H photo/video for safe fair purchasing. They are the standard for most pro-sumers. Also the photography-on-the.net has a classifieds section that will open a lot of doors if you aren't concerned with used. I believe they still have the section with new pricing and a historical run down of cost and rebates special offers. I haven't been there in 5 years or so though.
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  #72  
Old 03-01-2017, 11:20 AM
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keep in mind if you end up with a cropped sensor to pick you lenses carefully. My go to lens for everyday is a 15-85 Canon. if you have a 'std' 50mm and you want to take pics inside you probably will not have enough wide angle ability, as that is equivalent to a 80mm in a full frame.

Also consider where most pics will be taken. I have a nice Canon with some L series lenses that are fantastic. But every year we take a 2 week motorcycle trip and the Canon would be way to much for the wife to handle from the back of the scooter. So for trips I chose a Nikon 9100 point and shoot. Her all time record was a trip to Yosemite, Napa Valley, up to Ft Bragg and down PCH. She took over 3800 with probably 80% of them from a moving motorcycle. They turned out great.

As has been stated the P&S are getting better every year. More pixels gives you a lot of leeway for cropping, so composing the pic is not as critical (and almost impossible while moving)

Last edited by rjinaz86323; 03-01-2017 at 11:39 AM.
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  #73  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:29 AM
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I'll throw in a thought on image stabilization. If you develop essential tremors you will appreciate it. I wouldn't be able to take pictures without it without using a tripod. I don't even waste my time trying to take a picture with my cellphone as it will just be blurry.

Last edited by Arrowhead; 03-07-2017 at 09:47 AM.
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  #74  
Old 03-07-2017, 04:16 PM
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I'm in Naples.....taking hundreds and hundreds of pictures. Will throw most away but am sure enjoying the neighbors little mirrorless. 12mm to 50mm which in this camera means 24mm to 100mm as I understand it. There is a big fire, 6,000+ acres burning here at present. Yesterday it was 3,000 acres. The wind was blowing pretty hard from the east....now it is blowing wwn but the velocity has diminished. I-75 is to be shut down shortly. Too much smoke and the fire is too close. I am on 3rd ave south about a block from the beach. This place has some kind of money floating around. I'm just an ole poor boy here.

Other than that the weather is great, the water is beautiful and the place we are staying is free......



We were on an art tour yesterday and at this point the navigation was telling us to go one mile south and turn left. We did and were right on the edge of the fire. We toured the art and glass blowing studio....the fire was right behind the house about 1/4 mile. I asked were they concerned....nah....not blowing our way I was told. I hear on the news that area burned today because of a shift to the north in the wind.



I'm in a hood like this low class area.....



The smoke made for a rather red sunset yesterday. This evening the smoke is north of us so the beach should be clear.

Last edited by 1917-1911M; 03-07-2017 at 04:32 PM.
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  #75  
Old 03-08-2017, 08:03 PM
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I think I am a bit late to this, but, here goes. I started in photography in the '50s while I was n the military, and have gone through 4X5 press cameras, Leica rangefinder, Practika SLR Canon Rangefinder, early Pentax SLRs, 2 Rolleiflexes, Nikon SLRS, until I finally came to to Digital! Even the simplest of today's Digital SLR has features that make us oooold photogs dance and sing! Even the simplest of the DSLRS have features that even the Pro's won't tell you they don't know how to use!

That's just expected!

None of the "Big" Camera makers offer a "bad" camera...especially for the average snapshooter. NONE of them are "simple"! EXCEPT...If you only set it on one of the programs, and leave it! "P" for "Professional" comes to mind! You want a real hoot, watch "MWAC Attack" on YouTube. She explains things soooo well! "Battle at F/Stop Ridge" I and II are also entertaining!

Canon gets about 60% of the market, Nikon gets maybe 30, and the rest fight for the remainder.

There are two ... actually three systems...Full Frame FX , APS-C (crop)DX frame...about 3/4 the size of full frame, and the newer 4/3 format. I don't know enough about it to discuss it.

The FX and DX cameras use "kit" lenses, that are made mostly with plastics, especially the mounts, and they are designed for the smaller sensor. They can do marvelous work! Don't believe anyone that sneers at them. Not top quality, but VERY adequate ror most needs!

Full-frame lenses are built a bit better, cost more, and, obviously, fit full-frame cameras. They also fit "crop" cameras, where the coverage of the lens is more than the camera needs. Nikons have a 1.5X factor, and Canon has several...1.3, 1.4, and 1.6, iirc. It has the effect of a longer focal length.Technically, the smaller sensor uses the central, most highly corrected and sharp portion of the lense's coverage. I say technically, because I haven't seen much sharpness difference between the two classes of lenses. I make 12 X 18 prints from my 12 MP DX sensor camera, with no quality problems, as long as I have done my part! Won a few awards with them, too! VR is a goodness for anyone, and especially for me, as I approach 80!

The "Big Guns" of the photo world will co$t! Generally, "Kit" lenses...~$100-300, the mid-range "prosumer"~ $4-600...my Nikon 70-300mm VR was about $600 when I bought it.

The "Immortals" which richly deserve their legendary status...the 85mm /1.4, 70-200 mm vr f/2.8 is built like a tank, and costs ~$ 2,300, the vaunted f/2.8 wide angle zoom, nicknamed the "beast", about the same. The lighter, "economy" 70-200 f4 Vr. about $1400.

But! the mid-priced lenses are quality, and cost significantly less than the others. They don't have the "Gee Whiz" factor of the "Big Guns"...orrr...is it big 'uns?
the Nikon 85mm f//1.8 is every bit as good as the f/ 1.4, imo.

A portrait lens? Any 50-60 mm lens on a smaller sensor will be all you ever need..IF you remember to stay about 6-8 feet from your subject. Full-frame 85-135mm, and a zoom, if not abused is as good as any.

Nikon lenses fit most cameras, from approximatley the First World War, with the loss of a few features, and Canon has two series of lenses That will not work interchangeably on their two camera body offerings. This was discovered by two of my friends, who are Canon shooters. So, ask questions, and try each lens on your body, especially if you get one of the 19 year-old "sales people " that are more interested in the $ale!

Good-quality used lenses, etc. can be had at reasonable prices from KEH Camera.

As I get older, I attempt to lighten the burden. I find a lightly loaded photo vest...not the ones that make you look like the Michelin man on steroids, and an across the shoulder strap, rather than the regular neck strap do lessen the strain on neck and shoulders marvelously! Two lenses....my 24-85 zoom and the 70-300 do me for a day at the track, walking around town, or at an airshow. My 50mm f/1.8 and the 100 mm 2.8 Macro usually find themselves at home in the bag whenever photomania strikes!

My buddy, the Canon shooter, has bought himself a beautiful, expen$ive point and shoot camera...he has gotten somewhat tired of carrying his DSLR and 70-200 f/2.8 with him. He loves it, with the 1200 mm telephoto capability. It is nice, and is great for stuff that doesn't move...they're still working to eliminate the shutter lag...but for racing cars, airshows, kids, not quite the thing.

If you want to go beyond "P" for Professional, you'll need to know a bit about exposure. Bryan Peterson's book "Understanding Exposure",3rd edition will tell you everything you will ever need to know, and do it understandably.

Now: I hope I haven't told you how to build the bicycle, when all you wanted is to know how to change a tire!

Good luck in your search. It is a truly Magical pastime!

Last edited by C.C.; 03-08-2017 at 08:11 PM.
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