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2 oz. 82G trigger.

45K views 53 replies 26 participants last post by  ewspears 
#1 · (Edited)
well i started out tinkering with my 82G trying to get the trigger down to a real benchrest type wieght. at least single digit ounces. so i started honing and grinding and promptly ruined my trigger to the piont of non function. the sear was no longer tall enough the engauge the striker properly. so with my trigger basicly trashed i sharted looking for upgrade ideas. i looked at Jard triggers, Annie triggers, Remmy triggers, anything to get back up and running. nothing would adapt without extensive modification of either the gun, the trigger or both. no chance of upgrade to be had i went in search of parts to get my stock trigger back up and running. as luck would have it there is a bunch of 82 parts FS on GB right now. so i figured i can get a replacement and with my parts being screwed up anyway it was time for little experiment. what happened was i ground off the bottom of the sear so that i could get to the engaugement surface to polish it. while i was doing this i went just a bit too far. first thing i did was to peen the sear to get it tall enough to reengauge the striker. so i heated the top and peened and heated and peened till it was .040" taller. reground and polished the top profile back to spec. now it would reengauge. it was working but still only around 1# standard fare for 82's. then i started looking at the trigger return spring and the travel adjustments. i switched the trigger return spring to the top hole and the OT stop to the bottom. then i switched the stiff factory spring for a softer spring. i used a trigger return spring out of a 10/22. this got me down to 13 oz. better but still not good enough for what i wanted. frustrated i sat down for break. while i was sitting i was looking at the replacement pats and got to looking just exactly how everything was laid out inside the group. basicly the trigger is a lever operating on a fulcrum. the closer to the load the fulcrum is the easier it is to move the load. well the fulcrum on the 82G trigger is in the worst possible place to work as a lever all the way at the bottom of the trigger group. easy fix move the fulcrum up closer to the load. i set the pins out side and mocked up the hammer and sear on the outside so i could get an idea of where to put the new pin. once i located where i thought the hole should be. i installed the trigger back into the housing and locked it down with the adjustment screws. then i drilled a new hole with a carbide bit. it has to be carbide. nothing else will cut the trigger metal. i went to 1/4" which is maybe a bit big BUT it works perfectly. if i did another one i would use a smaller bit and pin. the hole is .325" up and .150" to the rear. all measurements are center to center. after this simple pin relocation. trigger pull had to be adjusted UP to 2 oz. it was VERY SCARY light when i first installed it. i'm sure it is a combination of all the things that i did to get it to where it is but it's there. a real 2 oz. trigger for my 82G.



 
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#28 ·
Keeley, PM Nemohunter. He's offering to do the trigger work for a fee. I believe he is going to do more than just move the pin. Moving the pin is the major part of the improvement but, for the best results, you need to do some other things as well. That angle on the sear engagement needs work. I really can't understand why Kimber made it that way.

Good luck and post results.
 
#30 ·
it wont work after you move the pin up. it is too close to the fulcrum and you have to dial up the pressure. trust me you can get it lighter with the spring on top. it allows you to decrease the sear engagement too. i also change out the return spring for a softer one than the factory. mine was very stiff.
 
#31 ·
OK, I finally done it! Moved the pin up and back, I dont think its as far as everyone else is doin it, I didnt think I needed a 2 oz trigger. Mocked it up outside, marked it, started drilling, cheap bit, (only paid 5.50 for it , now I know why), messed up about 3/4 of the way through the trigger. Caused the hole to open up a bit. Had to make a new slightly oversize pin, but was able to take some of the factory wobble out by doing this. Reshaped the trigger and sear while I was at it. OH MY GOSH! Had to adjust UP to 14 oz. Ill get behind the gun in the morning and report back. Definately a must do.
Carl
 
#32 ·
Here's a question on this modification: What did the mod do to the creep?

Creep is defined as the movement of the trigger to move the engagement surfaces of the trigger and sear out of contact (slide the trigger across the engagement surface of the sear for rifle triggers).

In theory if you reduce the pull force by changing the leverage as shown you increase the trigger travel by the same ratio. For example:

Suppose the sear engagement is 0.020 inches (a common number) which is nearly imperceptible as creep in a good trigger when the leverage is 1 to 1 as the Kimber was in its factory condition. When you make the leverage ratio 2 to 1 (make the leverage better by a factor of two) the movement of the trigger doubles to move the trigger off the sear. So that means the creep is 0.040 inches which is one millimeter which is a lot of creep.

Did you guys see that the creep got particulalry noticeable and/or objectionable after the modification?

To get to the 1/2 pound and less trigger pull weights, you appear to be getting with this mod, a good trigger would add another lever and some clever design to not increase the creep. Or they would go to a set trigger that uses two sears and momentum to knock the sear, holding the firing pin back, off its engagement shelf. Set triggers release the primary sear with the trigger. That sear flys under spring force for a short distance and hits the secondary sear with velocity which is momentum and knocks it off its engagement shelf, releasing the firing pin. The penalty is increased lock time or the time from when the trigger releases the first lever until the firing pin stirkes the primer in the cartridge.

I considered doing this mod until I remember that the creep would increase by the leverage ratio change. Now I don't know, as a good 1.5 pound trigger for me is fine. I don't need ounce tirggers to shoot as well as I can shoot (I'm no bench rest shooter!).


LDBennett
 
#33 ·
LD, there is a little more to the mod than just moving the pivot point. The 82G sear has an angle right at the edge that causes the sear to slip off if you set it too close. The angle can be removed and that will get rid of most of the creep. See post 24 and 25 of this thread.

The neat thing about this pivot point mod, is that it is entirely reversible so, if you don't like it, just go back to the original pivot point
 
#34 ·
Geoffrey:

Is the sear hardened all the way through or just surfaced hardened so that changing the angle reveals soft steel that will round off with use? Did you re-hardened the sear (or tirigger) after modifying it?

You realize, I hope, that the angels can not be 90 degrees or it is only friction holding the trigger from slipping off from a slight bump (like closing the bolt). A safe trigger has some very slight camming back of the striker by the action of pulling the trigger. The engagment edge should not be rolled as you said it was from the factory.

I realize that benchrest shooters love these light triggers but I can not make myself do a trigger job that is not safe or that will not hold cock if the rifle is handled in a normal manner. I even think it has to survive a bump to the butt plate as well. I don't want any range accidents.

When I get the rifle I'll take a look at what the factory has done and see how these mods might impact the gun I get. Maybe the trigger will be OK as delivered. I don't need an ounce trigger but a pound and a half would be fine for me as long as the creep and overtravel is minimise.

Thanks for the input.

LDBennett
 
#35 ·
LD if you would be happy with a 1.5# trigger you wont be needing this thread. that wieght is perfectly doable with the factory parts. yes you get a bit more creep. the small trade to get the MUCH lighter wieght.
 
#36 ·
2 oz. 82G trigger

Nemo, you are a godsend. I 'bout gave up on shooting my star grade. I shot 3 248s in a row(ir50/50). Tuner, stock stock, Eley. Trigger was the sticker. I just took everyones word that nothing could be done with it. Now, thanks to you, I'll bed it, slice and dice the stock, of course do the trigger,etc. Here we go .wheee!!
At our club we also shoot a rimfire hunter at 100 yds on the 200 yd Hunter target. Quite challenging.
One question about the trigger. What is that big hole at the bottom rear of the trigger housing? On the rest it is filled with what looks like a big pin with those little lock screws in the middle. My rifle is not here or I could look it over.Jusr curious. Again thanks for all your work and for sharing it. You're a good teacher.

JohnWilliam
 
#37 ·
John that is where the saftey pivot goes. there is MUCH more than just moving the pin. all the enguagement surfaces need attention and a new return spring is in order too.
 
#39 ·
whatcha talkin bout? spade bit? i used a 10/22 bolt buffer pin when i botched the first drilling at 1/8" the only other carbide bit i had was 1/4" so that what i went with.
 
#45 ·
Allow me to add my kudos to Nemohunter and the trigger modification. I'm a newbie to the sport and he guided me through the adjustments on the phone after I re-installed the assembly. After some additional tweaking of the spring tension I went to the range. Don't have a clue as to the effort value, but the trigger is smooth and breaks well. Cameron says the trigger effort will lessen and become smoother with use, so I dialed it up a little more than I thought necessary.
On the 50 yard bench, and with my Nikon scope, it is a tack driving machine after a few warm-up rounds through the barrel.
Money well spent! My iron sight dedicated 82 assembly will go to him soon.
Great work by a great guy.................:D
 
#46 · (Edited)
My friend Scott just got his today. All he did was stone the sear and hammer and adjusted the trigger and got a nice crisp 7 oz. trigger. He had it at 4oz, and clipped one of the springs just a little too short. He replaced the spring and it ended up at 7oz. He's going to lighten the spring a little to get back to the 4 oz or lighter if it will hold, it tested safe at 4 oz. The pull was tested with a Lyman electronic pull guage.

I shot it today and the trigger on it is just good work stoning. Most people go too far. It does take someone who really knows what they are doing to get it that light and still be safe. It has no creep, just touch it and off the round goes, man it is a sweet rifle. The wood is beautiful, just one 3" cut.

Were it me, I would not add a pin, just get the trigger stoned right and adjusted and that is all that is needed. No creep or roughness. The designers made the trigger the way they did for a reason. Very little metal was removed. The who pin thing is a lot to go through. I'm going to just stick with the conventional way of working the trigger, not a re design. Were it the only way to get it light, it would be one thing, but it's not. To much has to be changed to get to the same place that properly stoning the sear and trigger get you. Have an accident and the lawyers will really be on you. Lightening a trigger is bad enough, but redesigned from what the factory put out could be bad, especially for Nemo.
Either way works well, it's just the liability I worry about.

What a fantastic rifle. It's supposed to be a rusty, but was never shot, sights were still in the box. I got some decent groups, just about 3/4" with a strong wind at 90 degrees, shooting @ 50 yds. It will great to shoot it when there is not the wind to blow the bullet around. I can't wait until mine gets here.
They are a fantastic deal for the money. I was very impressed with the way it shot, loved the sights too. The groups were great for a windy day and a rifle not yet broken in. I'd have to say the Kimbers are the buy of a lifetime. They like lower priced ammo too !

My Best, John K
 
#47 · (Edited)
My friend Scott just got his today. All he did was stone the sear and hammer and adjusted the trigger and got a nice crisp 7 oz. trigger. He had it at 4oz, and clipped one of the springs just a little too short. He replaced the spring and it ended up at 7oz. He's going to lighten the spring a little to get back to the 4 oz or lighter if it will hold, it tested safe at 4 oz. The pull was tested with a Lyman electronic pull guage.

I shot it today and the trigger on it is just good work stoning. Most people go too far. It does take someone who really knows what they are doing to get it that light and still be safe. It has no creep, just touch it and off the round goes, man it is a sweet rifle. The wood is beautiful, just one 3" cut.

Were it me, I would not add a pin, just get the trigger stoned right and adjusted and that is all that is needed. No creep or roughness. The designers made the trigger the way they did for a reason. Very little metal was removed. The who pin thing is a lot to go through. I'm going to just stick with the conventional way of working the trigger, not a re design. Were it the only way to get it light, it would be one thing, but it's not. To much has to be changed to get to the same place that properly stoning the sear and trigger get you. Have an accident and the lawyers will really be on you. Lightening a trigger is bad enough, but redesigned from what the factory put out could be bad, especially for Nemo.
Either way works well, it's just the liability I worry about.

What a fantastic rifle. It's supposed to be a rusty, but was never shot, sights were still in the box. I got some decent groups, just about 3/4" with a strong wind at 90 degrees, shooting @ 50 yds. It will great to shoot it when there is not the wind to blow the bullet around. I can't wait until mine gets here.
They are a fantastic deal for the money. I was very impressed with the way it shot, loved the sights too. The groups were great for a windy day and a rifle not yet broken in. I'd have to say the Kimbers are the buy of a lifetime. They like lower priced ammo too !

My Best, John K
with all due respect.Look at the title of this sticky "2oz. 82G trigger" not 4oz. or 7oz.
 
#48 · (Edited)
The point of my reply's were more about liability. The liability caused by changing the way a factory trigger is constructed.

It looks like my posts, which were opinion have been removed.
It's really sad that an opinion not shared by some others gets removed because it's something that some do not want to hear, but I have no control over that, even though several other very experienced, full time smiths were in total agreement with my opinions.

Fine with me, they are not my rifles nor my liability. I'm not going to repeat my reasons as to the liability problem. Should anyone want to know, fell free to PM me.

I also think a rifle with the trigger done by stoning, getting it to 4 OZ with zero creep will be a better trigger, but that too is just my opinion. I would much rather see Nemo do a trigger that way.

My Best, John K
 
#49 ·
trigger questions

Hello all, I am new to the forum, and I need some advise. Specifically I would like to ask Nemohunter to give me his opinion, since it is obvious he has thought a lot about the Kimber 82 triggger. I have a KoO (clackamas (?)) model 82, no other letter is attached, I assume it would be a "A" model. I acquired it sometime in the late 70s or early 80s, I dont remember exactly. After many years of sitting in the Gun Safe, last year I got it out and started to use it in .22 silhouette, hunter class.
this class requires a 2lb trigger at least. My rifle had no problem making that. at the last match, it broke down, and would not hold the striker back. I retired from the match and took it home and started to try to figure out what was wrong with it.
To make a long story short. After researching everything I could find on the subject of Kimber triggers, including and especially this site. I set out to reduce the trigger weight to the desired 2lbs. My gun is a repeater, and unlike others I found on the internet it does not have the adjustment screw for the sear/trigger engagement.
I carefully stoned and polished the trigger and sear bar, I obtained a reduced weight
trigger spring (found out about it on this forum) and carefully reassembed everything. the porblem is with the pressure of the firing pin on the sear bar the trigger weight is nearly 6 lbs. Can you give me your opinion as to what I can do to
reduce this, and specifically should I drill and tap and install a trigger/sear engagement adjustment screw. As soon as I figure it out I will post a photo of the trigger group to show the absence of this adjustment. Also let me tell you that I have many years experience working on triggers, however they have all been on various target pistols. Thanks for any comments.
 
#54 ·
Nemo's 2oz Kimber 82G trigger Mod

Hi!
I am wanting to do this mod and have a question.
I am shooting for a 4 to 6oz trigger with minimal creep.

My question is: Is the .325" high and .150" back dimensions the only ones that would work????

I'm thinking that to meet my trigger goals Using dimensions of .250" high and .100" back would allow me to meet my 5oz goal with less creep.

I would love to hear others thoughts on this!!!
Very much appreciate anyone with knowledge on this taking the time to respond!
 
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