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  #1  
Old 01-08-2017, 07:45 PM
hokiefyd

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What would you do with this modified stock?



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2017-01-08_08-31-41 by jnjadcock, on Flickr

I bought this stock off eBay (from Numrichs) because it looked interesting to me. I liked the look of the cheek riser and it also had somewhat of a finger groove forend. The pistol grip was also recurved some.

But, after a lot of paint stripping and sanding, it looks like a factory Ruger stock with some plywood and filler. I'd say the guy did a fantastic job in terms of workmanship -- everything was pretty smooth and it seems done well. It's had three colors and at least as many physical coats of paint. The first color is blue. At some point after that, it was silver. Its last color is black, though the black has a very slightly rubbery/plastic feel to it. It felt extremely close to CZ's "polycoat" that they put on their CZ-75s.

2017-01-08_08-30-09 by jnjadcock, on Flickr

2017-01-08_08-32-27 by jnjadcock, on Flickr

2017-01-08_08-32-09 by jnjadcock, on Flickr

He built up the cheek riser with what appears to be a 3/4" piece of plywood and some filler. He filled in the curve of the butt with plywood and he built up the right side of the pistol grip with wood filler for a bit of a palm swell. It all feels okay -- the cheek riser is a little thick, though. The height is okay, but it's so thick, it pushes my eyes off-center. I plan to, at the very least, shave some of that cheek riser off.

But I rather like the grain of the stock. I figure this must be an old stock, just guessing from the number of coats of paint it's had. What do you reckon the wood species is? The grain looks a little coarser than the older birch stock I recently bought (http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=833329). At least half of me wants to strip all of the modifications off this stock and put a nice stain on it.

What do you think? Is the stock worth turning back into a wood stock? Any ideas for what else I could do with it? I bought it as a project, just to see where it would take me. Any and all comments are certainly appreciated.
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Old 01-08-2017, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hokiefyd View Post
Is the stock worth turning back into a wood stock?
It'll always be a wood stock! I meant to ask, is it worth turning back into a factory-style stock?
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2017, 08:15 PM
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wood stock

looks like walnut, but my eyes are 71 years old, Jim.
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  #4  
Old 01-08-2017, 08:28 PM
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Now...that.....
Is one interesting stock!
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Old 01-08-2017, 08:40 PM
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Can you get all that off without damaging the stock underneath? What if you get it off and the stock is already hacked up? Maybe massage the add-ons and see if you can get something you really like? Do you have the ability to cut that butt plate back and put on a proper recoil pad? There's been some pretty nice paint jobs shown using cobweb paint or whatever it's called. This looks like your chance to think outside the box!
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:00 PM
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Very unlikely to be restorable to original condition. I would modify it to fit me and repaint.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by azjeff View Post
Can you get all that off without damaging the stock underneath?
So far, it looks promising. I've been able to cut away (with a mouse sander) at the wood filler, and there seems to be good wood under the filler. Some of what you see as naked wood right now was previously covered by filler. It doesn't look like he used filler to repair a damaged stock -- just to contour the stock to what he wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azjeff View Post
What if you get it off and the stock is already hacked up?
I'll be out some time, but nothing else. If I wasn't clear in my previous post, I liked the look of this stock better than the feel of it. The cheek pad is way too thick for me, so that'll have to come down quite a bit. The finger grooves at the front work okay, but they're uneven when looking at the stock from the front. They're okay -- just not anything that I'd be upset over if they were gone. Given the really pretty grain on this stock, I think I'd rather have the natural look on this than the add-ons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azjeff View Post
Do you have the ability to cut that butt plate back and put on a proper recoil pad?
Yes. I do prefer the crescent shape to the butt plate, and I may look at carving his extension back off to put the factory Ruger butt plate back on it. Or, if I find a curved rubber recoil pad that's designed to be fitted to a flat butt (like a Sporter stock for example), I could do a straight cut and use that instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azjeff View Post
There's been some pretty nice paint jobs shown using cobweb paint or whatever it's called.
I've looked at a lot of fishnet patterns and hydrodipping options. If I continue working with the stock and find that I can't restore it, and I need to use some filler just to bring it back to a conventional shape, I won't be able to stain it, and I'll have to consider painting it. But, I don't think I'll miss the modifications to this stock, because they're not comfortable to me anyway.

The grain of the wood is really talking to me on this stock. If it looked just like my birch stock, I probably wouldn't go to all the trouble. And even with this, I realize that I could just go buy a new or nice walnut stock for the price in time that I'll have on this. But, I enjoy working with wood and I really did want something to be able to work with and spend some time working on.

My other idea is to bob the stock and cut it off after the pistol grip and turn it into a Charger-like stock, if the butt of the stock is not usable. I have an 18.5" barrel, and my OAL would still be over 26", so I think I'd be good from a legal standpoint. I wouldn't be changing the use of the gun into a pistol (something intended to be fired with one hand), and I wouldn't be using a short barrel, so I don't think it would be classified as an SBR. As long as it'd be legal, I think that'd be something interesting and fun.

It might look something like this:

https://thewayithinkitshouldbe.wordp...uger-chargers/

That would sort of be a Plan B, though, in case I start working with the butt end and find that it's really dorked up under the cheek pad.

I think I'll start working with the front this week. I may take down the finger groove swells and see what the forend looks like. He's filled in the front barrel band cut so the stock has a smooth front. I don't like all the wood filler in that area, and I'll cut it out and either contour it back to be able to accept a barrel band again, or I'll cut that whole front section off and bob the front and shape it to look nice. I could do something like this at the front (first picture):

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...harger-pistol/

Last edited by hokiefyd; 01-09-2017 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:05 AM
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My first thought was cherry, but after looking at all the pics I'm pretty sure it's birch... but one who's grain and the shape of the stock are well matched... it's nice. Definitely not walnut. If they didn't use any fasteners, it may go back to factory.... any adhesives can be dissolved, and from the look of the fit, they really tried hard to contour the parts to a glueable fit instead of screwing hunks of wood on and using the filler to fill the voids.... also good. So, I believe you could take it to factory more than likely. But you've got that already with your gun show find... (I went to that show, thanks for the heads up)
Have fun with it... your ideas sound good!
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  #9  
Old 01-09-2017, 07:57 AM
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"It is what it is." And it's a superb job of shaping a stock that was going to be painted. IMO you should shape it to fit you and paint it. Or start with another one if you really want the wood to show. I love a beautiful wood stock but I don't think you can get there from here.

I suppose you could do something like mask off and paint the filler and mis-matched wood and have "windows" where you see the grain.

The guy even matched the original grain pattern with some of the filler parts. That's craftsmanship and he never expected anybody to see it again. I'd still paint it.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:16 PM
hokiefyd

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Originally Posted by CardPuncher View Post
I suppose you could do something like mask off and paint the filler and mis-matched wood and have "windows" where you see the grain.
I'm thinking this is what I may do. I may paint the accents black (filler, cheek pad), stain the rest, and then coat the whole thing in polyurethane or clear coat or whatever the most appropriate sealing material is.

I made some (very encouraging) progress tonight. The front finger grooves came off and revealed a beautiful wood grain underneath. I also removed the palm swell on the pistol grip and it, too, is perfect underneath. I think I'll keep the curved tip "cap" on the bottom of the grip, and that may be one of the accents I paint black. A tour around the stock, after a quick wet-down to raise the grain and show me where I still need to work:

2017-01-09_06-55-02 by jnjadcock, on Flickr

2017-01-09_06-57-26 by jnjadcock, on Flickr

2017-01-09_06-57-47 by jnjadcock, on Flickr

2017-01-09_06-58-07 by jnjadcock, on Flickr

Not that I'm really stuck on it, but you guys still think this is birch? The virgin wood gives off a medium-to-dark brown dust when sanding.

In terms of the cheek pad, I think I'll paint it back (with the rest of the butt stained), for an effect like this: http://godagrip.com/cheek-pads.html (LSRCP picture). For some reason, I like the look of cheek pads on wood stocks. I can't say why. Maybe just because they add character.

I'm pleased with how it's coming along so far.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:28 PM
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KEEP GOING!

You can go to paint anytime down the road if you want. No big deal.

First thing to do now...

Wet it down with mineral spirits and see if you like what you see as far as the look of the wood.

I have had great luck thus far with citri-strip. Should remove whatever paint is left.

Spray it with clear lacquer if you like the way it looks wet with mineral spirits. If you want to paint it a color later over the clear lacquer you can do that easily enough.

Sorry, don't mean to tell you what to do but that is what I would do if it were me/mine.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:36 PM
hokiefyd

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KEEP GOING!

You can go to paint anytime down the road if you want. No big deal.
Thanks...yep -- I figure I have nothing to lose by seeing what's under the add-ons. Even if I have to paint it in the end, I'd have had to paint anyway...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 86c View Post
Wet it down with mineral spirits and see if you like what you see as far as the look of the wood.

I have had great luck thus far with citri-strip. Should remove whatever paint is left.
My first strip was with Citri-strip, and it did a pretty good job. I'd actually like to find something that will dissolve wood filler.

I really do want to keep the cheek pad. I just need to thin it and shape it a little more, but that is a feature that adds value to me. I think I want to carve out all of the wood filler that's there (which will be needed less in the end, anyway, as my thinner pad won't have near as much of a shelf). Not sure, yet, what I want in the front. The filler that you see remaining is where the guy filled in the notch cut where the barrel band is.

I'm thinking that this stock was made quite a while ago, probably before the proliferation of power sanders. It didn't take me all that long to remove the stuff he had on there, and it's also not hard for me to blend the pistol grip cap in to the wood stock without the use of filler. I reckon this guy didn't have a power sander, and used filler to create the contours rather than blend the wood with abrasives.

I do recognize the pitfalls with power sanding, and am done with it except for the cheek pad. I'll be hand sanding on the rest of the stock from here on out.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:59 PM
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Good! Glad you are not backing off of it. Look forward to seeing it done.

THIS IS NOT ADVICE... just an idea to consider.

Acetone will dissolve most epoxy.

If you want ADVICE regarding best way to deal with the 'problem' ask noremf. He is da man.
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:05 PM
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Type of wood

Quote:
Originally Posted by hokiefyd View Post
Not that I'm really stuck on it, but you guys still think this is birch? The virgin wood gives off a medium-to-dark brown dust when sanding.
I'm pleased with how it's coming along so far.
It does not contain any of the characteristics of Birch commonly used for mass produced consumer wooden gunstocks. The most common of those are cloudy areas created by large sapwood areas.

Also Birch tends to have wider and less defined fiber patterns.

Beech does not contain normally contain either.

The differences between the two hardwoods can be seen here.



You can see the cloudy sapwood and less defined fiber patterns on each of the different Birch examples.

Conversely Beech does not contain cloudy sapwood and more defined fiber patterns. Yours fits the second from the top of the Beech examples and maybe the fourth.

Beech is often used in lieu of walnut for face frames when enough walnut for a project like an Armoir is not available. It can be finished to look like the surrounding walnut without too much trouble.

While you can get Birch that does not contain large sapwood areas such as Apple Birch as an example, that wood is uncommon and does not grow in normal Birch forests.

In addition, the Birch that does not contain large sapwood areas, which also are not in the same forests that do, is normally reserved for veneers and sold to those folks.

You are far more likely to encounter Flecky Rayed Beech on a mass produced consumer wooden stock then Birch without visible and large or fairly large sapwood areas.

Never say never but my bet is Beech.

I would read too much into the sanding dust to determine what the wood is since you don't know for sure if the wood was colored or not and both species come in a variety of "shades".

noremf(George)

Last edited by noremf; 01-10-2017 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:57 AM
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"I'd actually like to find something that will dissolve wood filler"
The wood filler looks like bondo to me. Bondo is polyester based. Aircraft stripper will soften it but it isn't going to be easy.
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